JUST Committee Meeting

     Honourable members of the committee, I see a quorum.

     Pursuant to Standing Order 106(3)(a), as the clerk of the committee, I will preside over the election of the chair and the vice-chairs.

    I must inform members that the clerk of the committee can only receive motions for the election of the chair. The clerk cannot receive any other types of motions, entertain points of order or participate in debate.

    We can now proceed to the election of the chair. Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the chair must be a member of the government party.

    I am ready to receive motions for the chair.

    Mr. Maloney.

    Thank you.

     I would like to nominate for the position of chair the Honourable Marc Miller. I'll just say a bit about Mr. Miller.

     I've been working with him since we were both elected in 2015. He's thoughtful, he's compassionate and he's patient. These are all qualities that stand in high regard as a committee chair. I think he also has a strong legal background.

    Everything I've seen him do in the 10 years I've served with him, he's done with class and in a very professional manner. I think he would serve as an excellent chair for the justice committee in this session.

     I nominate the Honourable Marc Miller.

     Thank you, Mr. Maloney.

     Are there any other motions?

    Seeing none, it has been moved by Mr. Maloney that Mr. Miller be elected chair of the committee

    (Motion agreed to)

    The Clerk: I see it's unanimous. Thank you.

     I declare the motion carried, and the Honourable Marc Miller elected chair of the committee.

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    I would like to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights for this nice endorsement.

    Thank you, James, for being almost entirely accurate in your description of who I am.

    Before we continue, there are some new people here, so I'd ask that all in-person participants consult the written guidelines on the table before you. You've most likely seen them. The measures are there to help our translators, in particular, not have audio feedback, which can do damage, in their workplace environment. When you're there, stay a finger's distance from the mic, and don't slam the earpieces in outrage, whether feigned or otherwise.

     Obviously, these are people whose jobs depend on their ability to translate and hear us properly, so let's think of them when we have our back-and-forth, which is sure to happen.

    You'll notice the QR code on the card. It links to a short awareness video, if that wasn't clear enough.

    With that, if the committee is in agreement, I will invite the clerk to proceed now with the very important election of the vice-chairs.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the first vice-chair must be a member of the official opposition.

    Consequently, I am now prepared to receive motions for the first vice-chair.

     I nominate MP Larry Brock.

    Thank you.

    Are there any further motions?

    Are we doing both vice-chairs, or one at a time?

    We're doing them one after the other.

    Okay. That's fine. I'm sorry.

    Thank you.

     Seeing no other motions, it has been moved by Mr. Baber that Mr. Brock be elected as first vice-chair of the committee.

     (Motion agreed to)

    The Clerk: I declare the motion carried and Mr. Brock duly elected as first vice-chair.

    Can I still say a few nice things about him? I'm kidding.

     Mr. Chair, can I have the floor?

    Thank you, colleagues, for your confidence.

     This is the second term that I have been elected as vice-chair of the justice committee. In my view, it's a unique committee. There is generally a cross-floor level of collaboration. It's highly respectful. We're all highly educated within our chosen fields.

     I look forward to that continued dialogue and co-operation moving forward.

     Thank you, Mr. Brock and Mr. Chair.

    Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the second vice-chair must be a member of an opposition party other than the official opposition.

    I am now ready to receive motions for the position of second vice-chair.

    Ms. Lattanzio, you have the floor.

    Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

    I nominate Mr. Fortin. I sat with him on another committee, and I can assure the committee that he works closely with the team, that he will no doubt support our chair and that he will certainly contribute to the committee's success.

    Thank you.

    Does anyone want to move another motion?

    Since the second vice-chair must be a member of a party other than the official opposition, I'm elected by default. I won't be able to brag about having won a highly contested election.

    It has been moved by Ms. Lattanzio that Rhéal Éloi Fortin be elected as second vice-chair of the committee.

    Is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?

    (Motion agreed to)

    I declare Mr. Fortin duly elected second vice-chair.

    Congratulations, Mr. Fortin.

    Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Like Mr. Brock, I thank the members for their trust, even though, as I said, I didn't have a lot of competition.

    That said, this is my third time serving as vice-chair of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

    As I mentioned earlier, as long as we talk to each other respectfully, we can advance ideas in everyone's best interest. I assure you that you will always have my co-operation in having frank and respectful discussions.

    Congratulations, Mr. Fortin and Mr. Brock.

    If I understand correctly, Mr. Fortin will have to leave us in 15 minutes, and Andréanne Larouche will be replacing him during that time. I just wanted the committee to be aware of that.

    He has just been appointed and he's already leaving; things are off to a good start.

    The committee will not lose out, as Ms. Larouche is a very attentive colleague.

    Thank you. I'll see you at the next meeting.

    That's fantastic.

    For the members here, I have just a couple of rules of order before we get into the sole order of business today.

    To Larry's point, just wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. Comments should be addressed, obviously, through the chair. Things can get heated, but as Larry said, this has generally been a respectful committee. There may be times when things will need to get under a little bit better control. Obviously, we'll be a little more casual, but out of respect for your colleagues, please make sure I recognize you before speaking.

    For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For those appearing virtually, please use the “raise hand” function.

     Thanks for your co-operation.

    On this point, I would go to the sole order of business today, which deals with the routine motions that deal with our internal governance. The committee clerk circulated a list a couple of days ago. You should have, I think, a draft of the routine motions, which I believe all committees are seized of in the same substance and form.

    With the agreement of the committee, we can now proceed to examining these motions that are indeed very routine.

    Clerk, how do you want to do this? I understand we're not adopting en bloc, but we're—

    It can be done both ways, one by one or all in total. It might be better to go one by one just to make sure everyone has everything in hand, but it's all up to the committee to decide.

    MP Brock.

    I like the approach the clerk has suggested, Mr. Chair, but for expediency purposes, I think we've all had an opportunity to review in some detail the content of the routine motions. For this purpose, perhaps we can just identify the section head and then indicate whether or not there's approval to pass that, as opposed to reading out the full text.

    Is the team good with that? Hearing no objections, let's convene to do it that way.

    The first one we jump to should be under the third square you have, which is the use and retention of analyst services.

     If anyone wants to know who the analysts are, they are in the back. There they are. Please stand up. We'll be working with them.

     Are they going to join us, Clerk?

    The Clerk: Yes.

    The Chair: You might as well join us. No one seems to be objecting to the motion.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

    The second routine motion concerns the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure.

     Through this, we will be determining the agenda of the meetings.

    If there are any any points, comments or objections, please state them now.

     Mr. Chair, at this juncture, do we want to identify the composition of that subcommittee, or do you wish, as the narrative indicates, to wait until we get official direction from each party's whip?

    It's the latter. Particularly given that there are some new members who may have some thoughts or may want to contribute in a more meaningful way, let's wait for that point.

     (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

    The Chair: The next motion is on meetings without a quorum.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

     The Chair: The next motion is very important for the solidarity of our group.

     This is about important travel that the committee may be seized with. If there are any objections, views or points on that, please state them now.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

    The Chair: The next motion is more procedural. It's on the time allotted for opening remarks and the questioning of witnesses.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

    The Chair: The next motion is on document distribution.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

    The Chair: The next motion is on another important point of group solidarity and potential hangriness: working meals.

    An hon. member: [Inaudible—Editor]

    The Chair: You made that point earlier, James.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

    The Chair: Next, we have travel, accommodation and living expenses of witnesses.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

     The Chair: The next motion is on access to in camera meetings.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

    The Chair: We have a few more.

    The first is on transcripts of in camera meetings.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

     The Chair: The next motion is about notice of motion.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

     The Chair: The next motion is on orders of reference from the House respecting bills.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

     The Chair: The next motion is on technical tests for witnesses.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

    The Chair: The next routine motion is on the whips' access to digital binders.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

     The Chair: Finally, the last motion is on the maintenance of order and decorum.

    (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

    The Chair: Friends, there are no other formal orders of business for this meeting.

    Go ahead, Mr. Maloney.

    Since there are no other orders of business, I move to adjourn.

    MP Brock, go ahead.

    I have a motion I wish to table drop.

    We have to vote on my motion first.

    Yes, we'll have a look at it.

    It can be sent to you momentarily in both official languages.

     Mr. Chair, I'd like to be recognized as the first speaker, please. Both our hands were up at the same time.

     No, I recognized Mr. Maloney first.

     We do have a motion to adjourn. That is the first order of business. If that does carry by the will of the committee, we will so be adjourned. We do have to dispose of that first.

     MP Maloney, go ahead.

    Would I be allowed to mention something in respect to my motion?

    This is picking up on Mr. Brock's point earlier. We have always worked with a collaborative spirit at this committee. We're not in committee business at this stage. We've struck a subcommittee, whose responsibility it will be to initiate whatever studies we're going to do.

     Mr. Brock, I appreciate your tabling of this motion, but none of us have had an opportunity to consider it. I think it would be appropriate to adjourn, and then we can consider this at another date.

    Are you speaking on this motion, Mr. Brock? Go ahead.

     Mr. Chair, it's probably going to be no secret to you or Mr. Maloney—or, in fact, the entire Liberal membership at this committee—that we'll be opposed to adjourning this meeting for a number of reasons.

     It will come to a vote, but I think it's important for me to establish why we object to this. I appreciate what Mr. Maloney is saying, in that we can pick this up in the fall as another motion and add to it or speak to it in due course, but Canadians sent us back to work.

    It has been a significant period of time, going back to the 44th Parliament, since we broke in mid-December for our winter break, only to find that Justin Trudeau decided to resign as leader of the Liberal Party and plunge the country into proroguement. This wasn't the will of the majority of parliamentarians. We expected to come back at the end of January and continue our work, but because of that procedural move—which, in my humble opinion, was extremely selfish and only advanced the interests of the Liberal Party of Canada and its members in Parliament—we had to go through a leadership race. We were then plunged into a general election, which we all anticipated would probably happen after the new Prime Minister was selected as the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada.

    After the election, we waited another month before we finally returned to Parliament. I appreciate that the circumstances and the issues surrounding the election were such that there were certain priorities given to the Liberal mandate, which are now being argued and debated in the House of Commons, but throughout this entire process, Mr. Chair....

     I would dare say, backing up for at least three years, that there has been a prevailing movement right across this country to have the federal government finally address some weaknesses in our criminal justice system, particularly bail reform. It wasn't just opposition MPs who voiced objection. As we all know and as this country knows, there has been a groundswell of support for change. We've heard from premiers of provinces and premiers of territories. We've heard from police chiefs across this country. We've heard from presidents of police associations. We've heard from legal groups—

    I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

     Mr. Brock, I don't want to interrupt, and you know, based on my past behaviour, that I'd like to let you have the floor, but there's a motion on the floor to adjourn. It's not subject to debate. The submissions you're making now, with all due respect, pertain to the motion you've dropped on us today.

     I think we vote on the motion to adjourn and, depending on the outcome, we proceed from there.

    Do you have a lot more, MP Brock? I note that your colleagues, MPs Gill and Lawton, want to speak as well.

    I have a bit more but not much.

    Try to be brief.

    I'll be brief.

    This is an issue that we all heard on the doorsteps when we were canvassing. This is an issue that is not going away, and simply pushing it on the back burner because the chair recognized Mr. Maloney over me.... We both had our hands up at the same time. I simply can't advance my particular motion until I'm recognized by the chair.

     I exercised the appropriate procedure, and I don't think Canadians expect us to delay and punt this issue further down that proverbial football field. It needs to be addressed today, and that is why I will proudly not support Mr. Maloney's bid to adjourn this meeting.

    Thank you.

     Thank you.

    Go ahead, MP Gill.

     Mr. Chair, I also want to touch base on the issue of crime.

    We all know that we went through an election here recently. What I heard from people at the door was completely different. They are really scared. Canadians are increasingly worried about their safety. Whether it be break-ins, car theft, gang violence or drug trafficking, people are feeling the effects of failed Liberal policies every single day. Even in Brampton, families are living in fear. Crime is no longer the exception. It's becoming the norm they face every single day.

    This is not just perception. I would like to bring in some data here. In 2023, auto theft claims hit $1.5 billion nationwide, a staggering 254% increase since 2018. Ontario alone saw vehicle thefts skyrocket by 48% in just two years. Tens of thousands of cars are stolen annually. That comes from the Insurance Bureau of Canada.

    Firearm-related violence also surged to its highest level on record, with nearly 14,000 violent gun incidents across Canada. Communities in Ontario, New Brunswick and B.C. were hit the hardest. That's from Statistics Canada.

    Gang violence is out of control. In 2023, almost a quarter of all homicides were gang-related. Even more alarmingly, 31% of homicide suspects were under the age of 18. That's nearly double the previous year's rate. That's also from Statistics Canada.

    In the Peel region, police made the largest drug bust in their history, but six of the nine accused dealers are already out on bail.

    I have a point of order.

    In another operation targeting an extortion ring, half of those were—

    MP Gill, let me interrupt you. There's a point of order.

     Thank you, Mr. Chair.

     Mr. Gill, I don't mean to interrupt you in your speech, but it seems very clear to me that you are speaking to the substance of this motion. I'm sure you will have the opportunity to do so, but I want to bring back the point that there is a motion to adjourn.

    Mr. Chair, I think it would be opportune at this point to vote on that motion. If it does not pass, then we'll entertain all representations and all points of view with regard to the substance of Mr. Brock's motion.

    I want to reiterate that I'm calling the vote to adjourn. It seems to me that we're discussing the merits of the motion, Mr. Chair.

    If I may, I have a point of order.

    Sure.

    I appreciate my friend's suggestion. Nonetheless, you have to look at the substance of the motion itself in order to ascertain the urgency, which is the point that's being stressed by the opposition members here. We can't discuss the motion to adjourn and potentially the need to adjourn, without addressing some of the substance in the opposition motion.

    I appreciate my friend's position, but I think Mr. Gill has the floor. We'd be very grateful to be able to conclude, each of us, briefly.

    Typically, as the members well know, these motions to adjourn go immediately to a vote. I've allowed some leniency in the spirit of a new committee being convened, hopefully with the spirit that Mr. Brock represented as vice-chair when he got elected. I have allowed some leniency. This will go to a vote very shortly, but I would like Mr. Lawton and Mr. Maloney to be able to speak briefly if they have a point that is pertinent to the motion and not Mr. Brock's motion.

    It's over to Mr. Lawton now.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    On the Liberals' belief that adjournment should take place immediately, I am new to the House of Commons. I was elected, as were all of us on the Conservative side, in large part due to our desire to have safer streets in this country and our desire to get serious about bail. The number of people who brought up the urgency, to them and to their communities, of the crime situation was absolutely staggering.

    Look, I accept that the Liberals won this election. The Conservatives had argued that members of Parliament should sit through the summer, because all these issues that are facing our country are still here regardless of the outcome of the election. I do not think it would be opportune for any of us, including my Liberal colleagues, to pack up this committee's work for three months without having done a single thing to help the crime-riddled communities of our country. I speak on behalf of my own constituents in Elgin—St. Thomas—London South and all Canadians.

    I think adjournment is entirely inappropriate when we have Canadians who elected us to get serious about this. I actually don't think any of these members want to face their own constituents over the next two and a half months and say that they chose to not even listen, to not even debate a motion about some of these issues, because they thought it was easier to start their summer vacation early.

     Thank you, MP Lawton.

    Ms. Larouche, go ahead on a point of order.

    Then we'll go back to Mr. Maloney.

    I would remind you that 48 hours' notice is required before we can debate a substantive motion.

    Are we now discussing committee business?

    No.

    Exactly.

    We just passed the motion that members must respect the 48-hour time frame—that is to say, two nights—before moving a motion like the one Mr. Brock is moving. That's a very fair point. We'll go to a vote soon, and members can vote accordingly.

    Mr. Maloney, go ahead, and then we'll go to a vote.

    Thanks, Mr. Chair.

    We're experiencing early-onset grandstanding, I see.

    Look, this is a procedural motion. We vote to adjourn or not to adjourn. I welcome the new members. There's a process in place for getting motions on the floor and having an opportunity for debate. Following the procedure, which both of you will respect, the process is to vote once a motion to adjourn is made, and then we can move on.

    I have a point of order.

    Call the vote, Chair.

     MP Lawton, go ahead, briefly, if it's material.

    Mr. Chair, that member made an argument alongside his motion to adjourn. He followed the introduction of the motion immediately with an argument for why he thought adjournment was inappropriate. He was the one who started debate on this motion, Mr. Chair. I think it is entirely appropriate for us to respond to those arguments.

    Again, the responses are well noted.

     We will now go to the vote.

    (Motion agreed to)

    The Chair: The meeting is now adjourned.