//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1730)[English]Thank you.I was personally very excited to hear Mr. Richards say that he just wanted to get to the vote. I'm now in the unusual position of having to listen to other people, so I'm going to move—and I hope it's a proper motion—that we vote on the amendment.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1855)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I want to put out there, first of all, that I do have to leave by 7:30. I do have another commitment that I also am committed to. I just want the committee to know that. EmmanuelDubourgBourassaBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1855)[English]I can't get a sub, but thank you so much for offering that to me, Blake. I am a whip. I know how that works.I'm happy to support this amendment.I was excited to hear Mr. Richards say that we were just going to get on with it, because I was getting frustrated by how political this has become.In December, when I moved to adjourn, we had time in the last sitting week, on the Thursday, and I would have been happy to sit. I don't get a vacation. I'm sure most of us don't. I was trying to spend time with my constituents. I had obligations to them. I really believe that constituency time matters, because our constituents matter, so I'm hoping we can get to a vote at least on the amendment that we have. I keep hearing from the Liberals that they have amendments they would like to propose. If they have amendments that have a good rationale, I'm happy to consider them. I'm happy to have that discussion. I would like a clear rationale to them, as Mr. Desilets has given as well.It feels as if this is just getting held up. I've been very clear from the beginning. I have said publicly that I would support Mr. Richards' motion. I know that I've interrupted him a few times to try to get him to move the motion. I want to say that he moved it and I appreciated that he didn't have a big speech in front of it. It's unfortunate that we can't even vote on an amendment that everybody has said they're comfortable with. It would be good to at least take one step so that we can get one step closer. I want this done. I think I've been very clear with this committee that I just want this done.The reality is that I don't know the right answer for this. I really do believe that veterans should be making the final decision, but how that decision is made matters. How that process is made matters. We have not had clarity. I really feel sad, because this is now blemished, and that service in Afghanistan should not be blemished with this. I'm just trying to get to a place where we can figure out what happened, because I'm sorry, but what we were hearing from the minister was not enough for me. I was clear during that meeting that it was not clear enough for me. The process was not clear, and there was no way to prove it was veterans. Maybe it was, but again it creates this cloudiness that I don't think is fair.I encourage this committee to please just get at least to the amendment and then hear what the Liberals have to offer. Then maybe in the next few minutes we can actually get this done.Committee businessBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1920)[English]I just feel like this is the kid's song from when my boys were little. This is the song that never ends. It just goes on and on, so here we are.I'm hoping we can just vote on this amendment. I don't really care; I just want to get this done. Veterans deserve to know what happened. We need a better process. We need transparency. Can we just get this moved? If you want to change the date to May 1, I'm sorry, but I don't see how it's going to leave out November 8. I believe both sides seem to be trying to delay. Let's get it done. I'm happy to support it if it means we actually get this vote done. If we don't get this vote done soon, I'm going to be very frustrated, because we just need to get it done.Obviously we need to look into this. Obviously there's something that we're going to find, hopefully, because it just seems like a lot of blocking at this point. That's how I'm feeling. I'm happy to support it. Let's move forward.Canadian Forces mission in AfghanistanCommittee businessGovernment contractsMotionsWar memorialsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1105)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I just want to read into the record a motion on notice. I will not be moving it today, of course, out of respect for the witnesses we have here, but I want to make sure it's on the record. It says: That, in relation to its study on the National Monument to Canada's Mission in Afghanistan, the committee:a) Invite the Deputy Commander of Military Personnel, Lieutenant-General Lise Bourgon; and b) Pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), order the production of all memoranda, briefing notes, emails, correspondence or any other records of conversations or communications (including text messages, Microsoft Teams messages, WhatsApp messages, Signal messages or other electronic messaging), with regard to the National Monument to Canada's Mission in Afghanistan, transmitted, since November 8th, 2021, between: i) the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Office of the Minister of Veterans Affairs, ii) the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Privy Council Office, iii) the Department of Veterans Affairs and the members of the jury responsible for evaluating the finalist designs for the National Monument to Canada’s Mission in Afghanistan, iv) the Department of Canadian Heritage and the Office of the Minister of Canadian Heritage, v) the Department of Canadian Heritage and the Privy Council Office, vi) the Privy Council Office and the Office of the Prime Minister, vii) the Office of the Minister of Veterans Affairs and the Office of the Prime Minister, and viii) the Office of the Minister of Canadian Heritage and the Office of the Prime Minister, provided that these documents shall be provided to the Clerk of the Committee, in both official languages and without redaction, within 21 days of the adoption of this motion. c) And that the Department of Veterans Affairs Canada and the Department of Canadian Heritage provide the official report of the jury established for the selection of the firm responsible for the design of the National Monument to Canada’s Mission in Afghanistan. Thank you so much, Chair.I would just like to say—Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1105)[English]I have a point of order, Chair.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1105)[English]Thank you so much.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1110)[English]I have a point of order, Chair.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1110)[English]Absolutely I can be. EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1110)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.Again, I just want to note to everybody that this was just a notice of motion. Mr. Richards has complained a lot about not being able to get this done. What I thought I would do is bring together all the motions and, hopefully having representation from every party, move it forward.I'll leave it at that, Chair. I hope we can get to the witnesses.Thank you again for allowing me this time.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English]Thank you for your testimony, everyone. If I could, I'll start with a quick question for you, Mr. Booth. You talked about the four categories of veterans you work with. One thing that has come up in terms of services to veterans and transition is that often single veterans are left out. Some of them are single with children and some of them are single with no children, and they really lack any support around them.I'm just wondering if there's any program within the work you do that is aimed specifically at providing for people who are single.Military releaseTransition programsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNickBooth//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English]Thank you very much. That is very helpful.Ms. Cox, I want to thank you for your service, of course, and for your testimony today. The question I have for you is around the time you were serving in the CAF. You've talked a lot today about the toxic exposure you had. I'm curious. Were you provided with appropriate PPE? How did they work with you when you were pregnant to protect you?Hazardous substances and hazardous productsMilitary releaseTransition programsVeteransWorkplace health and safetyNickBoothVicky-LynnCox//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English]Did you get appropriate PPE?Hazardous substances and hazardous productsMilitary releaseTransition programsVeteransWorkplace health and safetyVicky-LynnCoxVicky-LynnCox//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English]To follow up on that, in terms of transition, when you did your medical release, did they do anything to look at those realities? Did you get a haz-mat medical?Hazardous substances and hazardous productsMilitary releaseTransition programsVeteransWorkplace health and safetyVicky-LynnCoxVicky-LynnCox//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English]You were released without a haz-mat medical.Hazardous substances and hazardous productsMilitary releaseTransition programsVeteransWorkplace health and safetyVicky-LynnCoxVicky-LynnCox//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1205)[English]I would assume, then, and please clarify if I'm wrong, that if you don't have that as part of your release, when you're accessing services at VAC.... Is there any recognition of that background or any medical that VAC provided?Hazardous substances and hazardous productsMilitary releaseTransition programsVeteransWorkplace health and safetyVicky-LynnCoxVicky-LynnCox//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1205)[English]You talked about your three children, and I'm just curious: Do you feel that how the transition was performed impacted your children in any way? Does VAC provide any concrete support for them?ChildrenMilitary releaseTransition programsVeteransVicky-LynnCoxVicky-LynnCox//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1205)[English]Thank you.Vicky-LynnCoxEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1305)[English]Thank you so much.I want to thank all those who have been here to testify.For those who have served, I want to thank you so much for your service.To start off, what I'm going to do is ask everybody about my first point, because I think you all spoke to it. I'm going to start with Mr. Turpin because he hasn't spoken yet.What I have heard from many veterans is that services are not veteran-centric. They're not focused on the needs of the veterans. I understand that that's very complex because veterans have had many different experiences. One thing that really concerns me is that services at VAC don't seem to be trauma-informed. What I mean by that is I've heard and read a lot of things come out of VAC where the tone very much says, “You're not behaving, and if you don't do what we are asking you to do by this date, you will face consequences and we will remove everything.” That worries me. Obviously, if people are in that kind of need for care, they often do call yelling. They often do have to process that in a way that can be very hard. I would love to see people better trained to respond in that way.Mr. Turpin, perhaps I will ask for your opinion on workers at VAC having a deeper understanding of trauma-informed services, hopefully with a lot more veterans working there to provide services to veterans.Department of Veterans AffairsMental healthMilitary releaseTransition programsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaSteveTurpin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1305)[English]Go ahead, Ms. Pollard.SteveTurpinSusanPollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1310)[English]Thank you.I only have a couple of seconds, so it's to Mr. Senior. Then if we can close with Ms. Hughes, I'd appreciate it.SusanPollardJohnSenior//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1720)[English] First of all, I want to thank all the witnesses today for both their service and their important testimony.I'm going to start with Honorary Lieutenant-Colonel Perron. I've spent time at the Pepper Pod, and I really enjoyed it. I really felt the energy there was supportive and created a safe space. I want to acknowledge that.One of the things I think about when I think of transition—and you mentioned it in your testimony—is that there is a standardization of care that both VAC and the CAF really like to work in. I understand that, but of course it often means that one-size-fit-all. We know that is completely not true as it is, but it makes it a lot more awkward for different communities that may be part of the military: women, the 2SLGBT community and the BIPOC communities.You talked about those spaces, those fora, where people can come together. How do you think, in terms of looking at transition, both the CAF and VAC can start to explore how to broaden that standardization in a way that would be more inclusive and perhaps lead to better outcomes?Equal opportunitiesMilitary releaseTransition programsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaSandraPerron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1720)[English]Thank you for that.I would like to follow up with retired Lieutenant-Commander Park.I really appreciated what you said about having a national action plan and really working with the non-profit sector. As a person who worked in the non-profit sector for many years, I know that often when I would look at government policy it was very clear to me that they weren't actually speaking to the people on the ground delivering the services. It was incredibly frustrating at times.Can you talk about what your vision is for a national action plan and how you see the non-profit sector being recognized in relation to how government services work to make some really profound changes in terms of transitioning?Community organizationsMilitary releaseTransition programsVeteransSandraPerronRosemaryPark//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1740)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.If I could come back to Ms. Perron and Ms. Park again around another issue, I would just like to hear if they've heard of this.I've been hearing from more and more veterans who, in the transition period, are really having a hard time getting housing. It seems to be a growing concern, especially with the cost of housing. I'm just wondering if you're hearing the same thing and what the impact would be on transition.Then the other part that that I think is really important—and I haven't heard any testimony on it yet—is around single veterans. The other thing I've been hearing a lot is that when single veterans leave and are in transition, they don't really get the same level of support. There are no resources for them to have a support person to come with them to do things that sometimes a spouse or a child would be able to do.I'm just wondering if you could talk about anything you're hearing about the transition period in housing and those realities for single veterans.Military releaseTransition programsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaSandraPerron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1740)[English] Thank you.SandraPerronRosemaryPark//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1745)[English]Thank you.RosemaryParkEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1830)[English]Thank you. I appreciate that, Mr. Chair.I want to thank both of the folks here for testifying, not only for your amazing testimony and for showing up, which I think is really important, but also for your service to the country. I appreciate it deeply.I'll come to you first, Ms. Riguidel, about a couple of things. I am going to lean on your expertise. Do you have any feedback or thoughts on how members who are transitioned out are screened for MST? If they aren't, could you tell us a little bit about that? It does worry me, because I've heard a few times that some CAF members talk about military sexual trauma as a women's issue. It is not just a women's issue, and that concerns me because it brings up that stigmatization. When people are leaving, it's a good time to feel safer to disclose things. Is there any process that happens during that time that you're aware of?Military releaseSexual assaultTransition programsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaDonnaVan Leusden Riguidel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1830)[English] This is concerning for me for many reasons, but also because, if you do not acknowledge it at that final step, then supports at the VAC level could be blocked. Can you give us any suggestions about how the transitioning process can be a safer process for people to come forward, so this can get captured and they can get the supports they need, regardless of where they are in their transition?Military releaseSexual assaultTransition programsVeteransDonnaVan Leusden RiguidelDonnaVan Leusden Riguidel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1835)[English]That's very concerning. What a horrible thing to happen. You also talked about your reality. I am concerned, because we know that we're having a hard time attracting people to the service. Being a reservist is another pathway. We're blocking opportunities for them, especially after they've faced trauma. In terms of the transition process, what are your recommendations on this particular issue?Military releaseSexual assaultTransition programsVeteransDonnaVan Leusden RiguidelDonnaVan Leusden Riguidel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1835)[English]Thank you. I know I don't have any more time. I wanted to ask you a little more about the app, because I think that was really important feedback. If there's anything you want to add, please send it to us, because I think, if something is not working so profoundly, we really need to see that fixed. Military releaseSexual assaultTransition programsVeteransDonnaVan Leusden RiguidelEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1750)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. Thank you to the witnesses. Thank you for being here and sharing your very important stories and for your service.If I could come to you first, Ms. MacDonald, you've had a unique experience in the sense that you're both a woman veteran and a social worker who has worked with VAC.Given this perspective, how do you think VAC caseworkers can improve in working with veterans, especially women who have experienced military sexual trauma? Sexual assaultStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaPaulaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1750)[English]Thank you for that clarity. I appreciate that. It leads to my next question.We've heard again and again from women veterans and experts that MST survivors need a way to report their sexual harassment or assault outside the CAF altogether. A lot of that is focused on concerns about chain of command.What difference do you think an external reporting system would have made for your case, in terms of seeking justice for MST?Sexual assaultStatus of womenVeteransPaulaMacDonaldPaulaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1750)[English]Thank you for that. Are you okay if I ask another question, or would you like me to give you a break and ask a question of the other witness?PaulaMacDonaldPaulaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1750)[English]No, you should not be sorry. I want to make sure we're looking after each other. I read in your information that VAC denied you a support person when you were interviewed by police about what had happened. Can you talk a bit about the rationale VAC gave you and how that felt for you?ComplaintsSexual assaultStatus of womenVeteransPaulaMacDonaldPaulaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1755)[English]Thank you for that.I'm going to start with you first, Ms. MacDonald, and then go over to Ms. Sharp. I'll ask you both the same question. I am very curious about this: I feel that often what we're hearing in testimony is that VAC disregards the interrelation of mental and physical health problems, in terms of the benefits they provide for veterans. I'm wondering whether you could both share a bit about the physical manifestations of the PTSD you have, if you're comfortable. Post-traumatic stress syndromeStatus of womenVeteransPaulaMacDonaldPaulaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1755)[English]Go ahead, Ms. Sharp.PaulaMacDonaldKristinaSharp//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English]I have a point of order.PaulaMacDonaldEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English]I'm sorry to interrupt. I just want to alert everybody.MP May, your microphone is on. We can hear your phone call.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1810)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I hate to correct you, Cathay, but actually, there are published national standards for all animal-assisted human services. They're not specific just to service dogs, but they do include them. Ms. Joanne Moss wrote to our committee to let us know that this work could be done. Again, I think it's very important work, because it took it out of the organizational level, which obviously created a lot of conflict, and set up some standards. Hopefully, what we'll see happen next is VAC using those standards so that there can be more supports for organizations that provide service dogs as long as they meet those standards.That leads me to my next question. I am going to come to Mr. Sawyer and Ms. Sharp. I'll start with you first, Ms. Sharp, and let you answer first, and then Mr. Sawyer could add. Because this study is very specifically about women veterans, I'm wondering if you could share, Ms. Sharp, what specific parts of your serving as a woman your service dog Stoker has provided support for. I think that's incredible. You really articulated it well. I've heard from other veterans as well that they won't leave the house unless they have their service dog. I'm wondering if you could talk specifically as a woman who's served your country about how it helps. Then if Mr. Sawyer has anything specific about women accessing the service from the organization, I would really appreciate it.Animal-assisted therapyCanadian Veteran Service Dog UnitService animalsStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaKristinaSharp//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1820)[English]I'm sure we can find somebody else to chair in your stead. I'm happy to stay until 7:10. I just thought I would let the record show that.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1820)[English]I have a point of order.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1820)[English]I'm sorry. I'm just asking for clarity. Maybe this isn't a point of order, but I was hoping the motion would be moved so that we can vote. I think we only have eight minutes, so hopefully that can be done.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1820)[English]I have a point of order.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1820)[English]I'm sorry to interrupt again. I'm just checking. We're now down to six minutes.As I said publicly, I'm willing to support this motion, so I'm hoping we can get to it. With only six minutes left, I'm really concerned that it won't get done today, so hopefully we can see that motion moved.Thank you so much, Chair.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1120)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.I have absolutely no problem supporting the motion that Mr. Richards has put forward, and I've shared that with him.I do have some concerns about the notice of motion that Mr. Desilets put forward. I don't think that bringing in staff from the PMO or bringing in former ministers is relevant in this study. What I think I am most concerned about is the fact that we sat in the space on Tuesday of last week, and the chair asked us if he could cancel the next meeting on Thursday. There were also commitments that we would come back at the beginning of the session and sit down to talk about all the studies, including the ones that Mr. Richards just brought forward, which I've already publicly said that I would support. There was a commitment that we would have that discussion at that time and look at what the new agenda would be for the beginning of the next year.I'm very disappointed. It feels as though we missed an opportunity on that Thursday. I would have been happy to come to the committee when I was there. The chair was very clear in what he shared with us. I want to move forward, but it feels like we're here partly for grandstanding and politics, so I move to adjourn this meeting.Adjourning a meetingCanadian Forces mission in AfghanistanGovernment contractsMotionsWar memorialsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1630)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.Of course, thank you to the minister and her team who are here with us today.Through the chair, I recently submitted an Order Paper question to Veterans Affairs asking about appointments that both the minister and the deputy minister have taken concerning specifically veterans who are women, indigenous and members of the 2SLGBTQ+ communities or persons living with disability.Rather than getting an answer, I have received a response saying that it was simply too difficult to track. For the sake of transparency and to make sure that we're seeing the minister's leadership support marginalized veterans, could you table with this committee the list of appointments that you and your deputy minister have taken since you became minister?Department of Veterans AffairsPolitical appointmentsSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardEmmanuelDubourgBourassaGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]Thank you. I appreciate that.The next question I have is on the recurring issue, which veterans have raised repeatedly, around the fact that so many of them are still struggling to find a permanent home or have serious housing insecurity. We've heard clearly as well, through the study on women veterans that we've been having lately, that women are really challenged to feel safe in some of their living spaces.Is there any consideration at your level around having veterans housing that is for women only?Department of Veterans AffairsHousingSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024VeteransVeterans Review and Appeal BoardWomenGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—DieppeGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English] Thank you for that. I certainly hope to see some focus on women-only centres. We know and have heard repeatedly that this seems to be a significant gap in the services.The other factor we've heard about repeatedly from women veterans is that they feel invisible, and it's particularly around health concerns not being properly recorded while they were serving in the CAF. Often, these women were silenced. They were bullied to not speak up. They were ignored. We've heard of women who were raped and there was no rape kit offered. Often, women were just standing the line because they fought so hard to get there that they didn't want to see their service diminished in that way.I'm just wondering: How will the minister address this reality in terms of the work at VAC? Women often do not have the appropriate documentation to support the significant physical and mental health needs they have because of the lack of records from CAF. Is there any discussion happening at a ministerial level to, number one, start addressing this more and, number two, offer an official apology to the women who serve so that it can be recognized by the public of Canada?Canadian ForcesDepartment of Veterans AffairsSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardWomenWorkplace violenceGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—DieppeGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.My next question for the minister is around the Merlo Davidson compensation. We know that the veterans ombud voiced some significant concern about the minister and the department not implementing its recommendation to publish VAC's methodology for determining the compensation, to cease disability pension reductions or clawbacks for the claimants at levels three to six, and to issue corrective payments to the women from whom pension amounts have been clawed back. My question is on when this is going to be implemented. Does the minister recognize the harm that is being done to these women by having their disability pensions clawed back?Department of Veterans AffairsDisability benefitsDisabled veteransSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardWomenEmmanuelDubourgBourassaGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]A lot of RCMP veterans did not put forward or share their claims because they were worried about the ramifications. Has any communication gone out to RCMP veterans to alert them that this work has been completed, or will there be?Department of Veterans AffairsDisability benefitsDisabled veteransSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardWomenPaulLedwellPaulLedwell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]Thank you for that.I'm also wondering what the current status on the King's coronation medal is. Medals are usually introduced with the design and criteria established, but since the PM announced the medal in the spring, there's been no further information or news on design or criteria. I'm curious. Where does the medal stand at this point and how many veterans will be included in the process?Awards presentationsDepartment of Veterans AffairsSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardPaulLedwellGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.Thank you to the folks who are left over to chat with us a little bit more about Veterans Affairs.I will allow you to decide who the best person is to answer, but if you don't answer soon, I'll have to bother Mr. Harris, I think. That's just a little heads-up.One of the concerns that we've heard, especially during our study on women veterans, is about identifying any preventable causes of sex-specific illnesses and injuries in the CAF. Women are calling for VAC to communicate to the CAF the lessons learned from the first few decades of service by women in operational roles and environments. I'm wondering if the department has any plans to work together with the CAF to prevent unnecessary sex-specific injuries and illnesses among military women. If so, could you elaborate on how that might happen, and if not, can you explain why?Department of Veterans AffairsInjuriesSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardWomenWorkplace health and safetyEmmanuelDubourgBourassaStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Going once...?Mr. Harris, it's good to see you.StevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Mr. Harris, thank you. You answered my question.My next questions are these: Could you provide the committee with the trends that you're seeing, specifically around women and sex-specific injuries and illnesses? What have you identified as a trend, as you just spoke about?Department of Veterans AffairsInjuriesSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardWomenWorkplace health and safetyStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]That is excellent. Are you going to table that with the committee?Department of Veterans AffairsInjuriesSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardWomenWorkplace health and safetyStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.We know that women veterans are calling for reproductive health research that follows them from military to veteran status, while also capturing the possible health impacts that their service had on their offspring. Of course, I hope everybody in this room has heard the testimony from the women veterans and sees how important this is.I'm wondering what the department is doing to ensure that women's reproductive health is considered in the health coverage and services provided by VAC.I want to remind everyone here of the question I asked the minister. One challenge, of course, is that women are often not coming forward, or when they do come forward, the assessment around their health care isn't done properly. For example, we heard that some women were getting breast reductions to be able to wear their kit.When these things happen, I want to know if that is actually being followed up. What is VAC doing to address the specific reproductive health issues that have been a consequence of their service? How is that communication happening between the CAF and VAC to address it?I'm assuming it's Mr. Harris answering again.Department of Veterans AffairsReproductive healthSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Can I just pause you there?StevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Thank you. Just for clarification, you're talking about reviewing other research done with our partners. Could you reference any research or commitment to research that Canada has around these particular concerns?Department of Veterans AffairsReproductive healthSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1740)[English]We've heard through testimony in the women's study that one of the challenges is not having enough Canada-focused research on both sides.The follow-up questions are these: What is the commitment to invest in this research? How is the department collaborating with the CAF to make sure the research is done on both sides, so that we can see the collaboration between the service and then the response after service?Department of Veterans AffairsResearch and researchersSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardPierreTessierPierreTessier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1755)[English] Thank you, Chair. I always enjoy getting the last word in, so I appreciate that.I'm going to go, through the chair, to Mr. Harris. If there's somebody else who should answer the two questions I'm going to start with, please let me know. I would appreciate that.First—and I believe I have this correct—the minister said that since 2015 there has been an increase of $11 billion in investment for the department. I'm wondering if the math has been done around that investment versus the amount that has been returned at the end of every fiscal year, and if that has been done, whether that math could be shared with us.The second question I have is around the survivor's pension. You know and I think everybody knows that the survivor's pension is of significant concern to me. We know that a lot of senior women are living in poverty because they don't have any benefits from their spouse because they married after 60. We know that in 2019, four years ago now, the announcement was made that $150 million would be put towards a survivor's pension, and every time I've asked so far, what I've heard is that they're still in a process of looking at how that money will be disseminated. Could the department table with this committee how much money has actually gone out to survivors since 2019 and how many survivors it has supported?Mr. Harris, go ahead.Department of Veterans AffairsSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Survivor pensionsVeteransVeterans Review and Appeal BoardEmmanuelDubourgBourassaStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1800)[English]What about the question of marriage after 60? I didn't get a response on that. I just asked if that could be tabled with the committee. If I could get confirmation that it would be tabled, I would be happy with that response. A witness: That could be tabled.Ms. Rachel Blaney: Yes. Thank you.Department of Veterans AffairsMarriage and divorceSupplementary estimates (B) 2023-2024Veterans Review and Appeal BoardSaraLantzEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1800)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I just wanted to see if the analyst would like us to send any recommendations that we may have to help him while he's writing.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaJean-RodrigueParé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English]I could just send recommendations and everybody else could agree not to.Jean-RodrigueParéJean-RodrigueParé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English]Yes, I think that's excellent. I'm asking for unanimous consent—Some hon. members: Oh, oh!Jean-RodrigueParéBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1625)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.I appreciate all the witnesses for being here today.I am going to be directing my questions towards representatives from the SMSRC.First of all, I know the SMSRC was established in 2015. We know some veterans and their families don't necessarily know about it. I'm wondering if you can share with the committee more about what you offer a veteran who has experienced military sexual misconduct.Government programsSexual assaultStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLindaRizzo Michelin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]Thank you. That's very helpful.We've heard testimony—Dr. Courchesne is here again today—that the Department of Veterans Affairs is working in partnership with the SMSRC.Could the representatives from the SMSRC please answer? How closely are the two departments aligned? Are they able to talk openly with each other? Do they see any challenges that make this difficult sometimes? I don't say that as a criticism. I think, from what we've heard clearly from a lot of women veterans during this time in committee, there seems to be a gap. They don't necessarily know about these services.I'm wondering whether, from your perspective, there is anything that could be done better to support women veterans in getting the support you provide, which sounds comprehensive.Status of womenVeteransShobaRanganathanLindaRizzo Michelin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English]Thank you for that.My last question is this. Is there any engagement in having the staff who work with veterans at VAC trained? You talked about being trauma-informed, and we've heard a lot of times that veterans feel traumatized when they reach out to VAC. I'm just wondering if there's any work happening to increase training—from your perspective, wisdom and knowledge base—in supporting women who have experienced sexual trauma.Status of womenVeteransWork-based trainingLindaRizzo MichelinLindaRizzo Michelin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English]No. I don't want Cyd to take that. If I could have you take that—LindaRizzo MichelinLindaRizzo Michelin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. This time I am going to come to Dr. Courchesne. The last time you were here to visit our committee, I asked you a question about how VAC staff, case managers, adjudicators, health care providers and veteran communities could submit complaints about the dissemination of information through VAC. Your answer was to call 1-800 and your name. That really wasn't what I was looking for. I'm just wondering if you could take this opportunity to maybe explain how that process actually works, so that we can make sure it's on the record.ComplaintsInformation disseminationStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaCydCourchesne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]I think that's good. That's helpful. I just have a short time.In the last meeting, you cited that the sexual misconduct support and resource centre is the lead for all matters of sexual trauma. You talked about VAC and Atlas working in collaboration with SMSRC. Can you clarify VAC's relationship with Atlas? Are you the clinical medicine and GBA+ quality assurance for that group? For example, if Atlas was to create a training document for family doctors on MST, how would that be coordinated with you and SMSRC?Atlas Institute for Veterans and FamiliesMental healthStatus of womenVeteransCydCourchesneCydCourchesne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Thank you.If I can come back to Ms. Michelin, I wanted to ask about the DND and CAF sexual misconduct class action lawsuit.We know that during the final settlement, it was agreed in the Federal Court.... One of its sections was tasking DND, and in particular SMSRC, to run a restorative engagement program. In October, we did have a witness, Dr. Aiken, who spoke to the committee about her concerns about how slow the start-up of the program was.I'm just wondering if you have any updates on this, and if there are other restorative engagement processes awaiting veterans.Government programsStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLindaRizzo Michelin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]How is that reported back so that people can see that? One of my concerns is that there's a sense of distrust, so seeing success, I think, would help many women come forward.Government programsStatus of womenVeteransLindaRizzo MichelinLindaRizzo Michelin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English] Thank you so much.LindaRizzo MichelinEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1640)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. I want to thank both the witnesses for their powerful testimony today. We've heard again and again from women veterans that they often feel their experience is invisible. In both of your testimonies you talked very clearly about how what happened to you was made invisible; there was no follow-up, there was no rape kit provided, there were no actions taken to move forward. I think this just re-emphasizes that reality of feeling invisible and ignored.I'm going to start with Ms. Wong, but I'm asking both of you the question. One of the things that has been very clear through this study is that data is a concern. Because it's isn't gathered appropriately while women veterans are serving, when they get to VAC it's often challenging to prove the things that happened, because that data is not there. I have a two-part question. First, what data do you feel should be collected in the future so that when you get to VAC you actually receive the supports you need? Second, should that documentation happen internally, in the same way that it's happening now—when things happen, everything is reported internally—or should it be an external process so that there's a step away from the CAF while reporting incidents like the ones you experienced?Ms. Wong, can I start with you first?Canadian ForcesPatient recordsStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaCaleighWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1645)[English] I think you got it. Thank you. Ms. Hayward, would you comment? CaleighWongStephanieHayward//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1645)[English]The collection of information is currently internalized. Do you think it should be external in these kinds of incidents so that there is more accountability and less connection to the CAF?Canadian ForcesPatient recordsStatus of womenVeteransStephanieHaywardStephanieHayward//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1645)[English]You talked about the fact that you went through extreme poverty and periods of homelessness after being discharged. Did you get any sort of support from VAC to figure out what benefits you could benefit from to prevent you from being unhoused?Homelessness and homelessStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsStephanieHaywardStephanieHayward//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1705)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. I'm going to come back to Ms. Hayward. You talked a lot about the reproductive health issues that you have because of your military injuries. Could tell us if you feel that VAC recognizes the severity of these issues? Did it fully consider the benefits that should be provided? If not, which sounds like the case, could you explain what gaps you see there in treating women veterans' reproductive health?Reproductive healthSexual assaultStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaStephanieHayward//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1705)[English]Thank you so much.I think my time is up, but I would love it if you could send something in writing to us about how VAC could better accommodate single mothers, because you brought that up and I didn't have enough time to ask questions. I would love to have you explore that.Thank you so much for your testimony.Reproductive healthSexual assaultStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsStephanieHaywardEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1625)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. As always, everything goes through the chair.My first question is for Ms. Usherwood. It's very good to see you, my friend. I want to come back to a bit of your testimony. You talked about how part of the reason you came out was that you felt a lot of trust for your leadership, and that it was safe. That particular person gave you a sense of comfort in taking the next step. I know—and you said as well in your testimony—that this is not often the reality for so many other people who serve. I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about what is needed within the military at that level to create systems that will provide more inclusive practices for the leadership so that we can see that safe environment increase.Canadian ForcesDiscriminationStatus of womenTransgender personsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNina CharleneUsherwood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]Thank you so much for that. That was very helpful.I really appreciate the flower example. I think that really clears up some of those myths that should be over by now.This is a study about what happens when people leave their service and go into the VAC system. I'm wondering if you could describe the discrimination and how it's translated into leaving the service and moving into VAC. Where are the challenges?We talked about data collection in the last study. It was about having the appropriate information and how there's no measurement if that data isn't gathered. I'm just wondering if you see any issues between those two now that you've gone through and are currently going through that process.DiscriminationStatus of womenVeteransNina CharleneUsherwoodNina CharleneUsherwood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]Thank you for that.I think that's an important point, and you've talked about this. It's how mental health impacts the physical health. We've heard again and again that when you're in the CAF, if it's not recorded properly, then when you get to VAC, it's hard to claim the injury. Is that transfer of information part of the challenge? Is it not clear enough from CAF to VAC?Canadian ForcesPatient recordsStatus of womenVeteransNina CharleneUsherwoodNina CharleneUsherwood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]Thank you so much.Ms. Stewart, I want to come back to you. Thank you so much for giving us that information. I know the Merlo Davidson class action was brought forward by so many brave women who were trying to obtain justice. Tragically, what we saw, of course, was that VAC's clawbacks not only defeated the purpose of that action and the objectives of the settlements; they also revictimized women.Not only, in my opinion, did it revictimize; I think it also silenced other women who may otherwise have come forward. The whole point of these actions, I think, is to stop the behaviour, so I want to know your thoughts on whether this also blocked women from coming forward.Second, you talked about the committee having a strong recommendation moving forward on this. Do you think a recommendation saying that the legislation should be changed to acknowledge...? I actually don't think your definition is too broad. I think that any time a person is in the workplace and is violently attacked as a result of being in that workplace, especially in this context, we need to honour that.Did it block other women from coming forward? Are we now missing a bunch of women who could have come forward? Is the legislation the smartest way for us to go forward as a committee in our recommendation?ClawbackStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaVivienneStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Thank you. I will return to Ms. Usherwood. There was some discussion earlier about case managers and some of the work they need to do or training they may require.In terms of service delivery—and I am going to be specific to the trans community at VAC—what kinds of skills do you think would open up their process to be a little bit more inclusive? You spoke a lot about needing supports or needing VAC staff to understand mental health concerns. I am just wondering if you could talk specifically about what would be helpful in order for somebody to come forward and actually feel heard and to see action happen on their file. What kind of training would be supportive for those case workers on the other side? Canadian ForcesDiscriminationStatus of womenTransgender personsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNina CharleneUsherwood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Okay, that's very helpful. Ms. Stewart, I will just close very quickly with you.We know that the Merlo Davidson class action resulted in money paid by the government to those who received such terrible harm. Does this provide enough incentive for the RCMP to actually change?Royal Canadian Mounted PoliceStatus of womenVeteransNina CharleneUsherwoodVivienneStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Thank you. VivienneStewartEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1605)[English]I just want to know who the witnesses are on Thursday before we make that decision.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaAlexandre (Sacha)Vassiliev//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]I think I would be more interested in having an extension of the meeting on Thursday. At least then we would have notice.Right now the problem, of course, is that Equal Voice is having its event, and many of us are attending it.If there's a way, Chair, perhaps you could look into having an extra 20 minutes at the end of committee to deal with some of the more important things and still have the two-hour committee with witnesses. Those are important witnesses, to me, on Thursday.Alexandre (Sacha)VassilievEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]I'm not okay with that.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]I'm fine with additional meetings. I don't want to take away witness time. If I'd known prior to this meeting that this was an important discussion, I would have put my mind to it fulsomely.The witnesses on Thursday this week are extremely vulnerable, and they're coming to share very important.... They are unique; they are the only witnesses who will come with that particular perspective, which is incredibly important to the study.I'd be very happy to have an extra meeting. If there's a way we can add an hour on Thursday, I'm very open to that as well. I understand that we need to do committee business, but I want to make sure the study is honoured as it was meant to be by all of us. I know all of us are not debating that at all.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I want to thank all the witnesses who served for their tremendous service.My first questions will be for Ms. Hall.I first of all want to say thank you so much for coming today. I really appreciate all that you've added to the discussion.You talked earlier in your testimony about how many reports have come out telling us again and again about significant challenges. I think it was called the RCMP's “horribly broken” culture at one point. From what you've said and what we've heard, it sounds like not much has changed, unfortunately.One thing that is very clear is we cannot expect healthy women veterans to emerge from RCMP culture when it is still so toxic and there are still big issues. The report said, “the RCMP is toxic and tolerates misogynistic and homophobic attitudes amongst its leaders and members.” We've seen so many failed attempts, and we know that this needs to change.You've talked a bit about your recommendations. I think they're really important recommendations, but could you talk about what needs to happen immediately to make these changes happen? I know there has been some change, but what do you think is most important to make women feel more seen and to connect them? You talked about connecting them, and I've heard this from women veterans of the RCMP who had no idea they could get a hold of VAC. They had no idea that was even part of the process.I'm also wondering, in the big complex question I just asked, whether you have any understanding, even from your time, of what the transition out is like. We know that when people transition out of the military, there are definite issues and there is a process, but I don't know that there's the same process for the RCMP.Royal Canadian Mounted PoliceStatus of womenTransition programsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaJaneHall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English]Thank you so much for that.Recently, we heard from the RCMP's chief human resources officer, Nadine Huggins, who appeared before the committee. When I asked her about support from external sources—which for both the military and RCMP is something we really want to see—she talked about the RCMP management board.Could you tell us a bit about the RCMP management board since its inception in 2019? Do you think it's effective and is bringing forward important things in its mandate about meaningful change for the RCMP?Royal Canadian Mounted PoliceStatus of womenTransition programsVeteransJaneHallJaneHall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English]That was in 2007.Royal Canadian Mounted PoliceStatus of womenTransition programsVeteransJaneHallJaneHall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Thank you. I would like to also ask questions of Ms. Turmine. I really appreciate the recommendations that you provided to the committee. The one that I want to talk about is the second recommendation, because I think it's really important, especially the issue of addressing sanctuary trauma. From your perspective, what are some possible solutions to ensure that women report military sexual trauma or other traumatic events related to their service?The other thing in that is this: What can VAC do to make internal changes to start addressing these issues in a more meaningful way? Please answer in French. I really appreciate it. Sexual harassmentStatus of womenVeteransWorkplace health and safetyEmmanuelDubourgBourassaMarionTurmine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English]Thank you, Chair.I will come to you, Ms. Miller. You said in your testimony earlier that one of the problems and concerns that you have is that there is no clear definition of what “sexual assault” means and what “MST” means. I know we've heard a lot of testimony from lots of veterans that if it isn't documented correctly when you're serving in the CAF, when you get over to Veterans Affairs, you spend a lot of time trying to prove the reality that you experienced, which you either didn't feel comfortable telling or you did try to tell and it wasn't documented properly.Could you talk about why that is such a problem and what a clear definition would mean for you, and what it would mean in terms of accessing Veterans Affairs services? Sexual assaultStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaJessicaMiller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English]Thank you.I only have a few seconds left.Ms. Hall, I don't know that I'll be able to ask you to answer this question, but you did talk about women's reproductive health, and that has been brought up about veterans and women in the CAF. If you can't answer now, because we have to go, I would really appreciate if you could give us something written about your thoughts about reproductive health for RCMP women. I think it's incredibly important.Reproductive healthRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceStatus of womenVeteransJessicaMillerJaneHall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English]Thank you.JaneHallEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to thank the folks who are here today to testify. I really appreciate what you've shared with us, particularly the very personal realities that you've had to share.My first question is for Ms. Doucet.I understand that you were exposed to hazardous chemicals. Were you provided with any personal protective gear? Was any information shared with you about the hazardous chemicals and their impact or specifically about the impact of those chemicals affecting you while pregnant?Canadian ForcesHazardous substances and hazardous productsStatus of womenVeteransWorkplace health and safetyEmmanuelDubourgBourassaMarie-ÈveDoucet//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English] Thank you for that.I really appreciated your recommendation that all the chemicals you are exposed to should be listed in your medical file, so there can be follow up on the impacts of those chemicals on your body. I'm definitely going to push for that recommendation.One thing that I've heard from other testimony is that there's no research done on service and pregnancy for women or women who want to become pregnant. I'm wondering if you feel that this needs to be a higher priority moving forward, so that there can documentation at the CAF that can be transferred over to VAC so that services meet the needs of women.Canadian ForcesReproductive healthStatus of womenVeteransMarie-ÈveDoucetMarie-ÈveDoucet//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]Yes, I really agree with that.I will turn to Ms. Smith. I only have a moment. You talked about the importance of having continuity of care. Could you expand on what that means for you and what that might look like?Canadian ForcesHealth services accessibilityStatus of womenVeteransMarie-ÈveDoucetJenniferSmith//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English]Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that.Perhaps I can come back to Ms. Smith. I think it's important that we go back to the housing insecurity she talked about. We know that at this point, about 16.2% women are serving our country, and yet on the other side, we're seeing that about 30% of the veterans who are unhoused or are in housing insecurity are women. That's telling me that something is significantly not working on the VAC side that we need to address.I'm wondering if you could share with the committee a little bit about your difficulties in accessing services and connecting with VAC when you had housing insecurity. Perhaps you could explain where the gaps are so that we can start looking at how we can see that remedied.HousingStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaJenniferSmith//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1825)[English]Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that.Welcome to all of our witnesses today. I'm really excited about your testimony. Thank you so much for being here.I'm going to start by asking Ms. Huggins if she could answer and decide where the question should go if she's not the right person.You spoke a bit about the transformation of the workplace and specific initiatives that are being done for women, and you said that those efforts are based on a body of knowledge. What are the specific initiatives and what is the body of knowledge that is informing those initiatives?Gender-based analysisRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNadineHuggins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1825)[English] Thank you for that.I'm wondering whether you could share—if you know—how or whether the RCMP has implemented, or is implementing, any recommendations from the Bastarache report entitled “Broken Lives, Broken Dreams”, the final report on the implementation of the Merlo Davidson Settlement Agreement. Royal Canadian Mounted PoliceSexual harassmentStatus of womenVeteransNadineHugginsNadineHuggins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1825)[English]Thank you. I appreciate that.I have a second follow-up question on that point. I know there has been some commentary that changing the culture from within can be a challenge and that there needs to be some support from external sources to change that culture. I'm wondering how the work is going in addressing those recommendations in that area. Royal Canadian Mounted PoliceSexual harassmentStatus of womenVeteransNadineHugginsNadineHuggins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1830)[English]Thank you.I hope I have this right. Please correct me in your response if I don't. I understand that women RCMP officers are staying for a period of time. It seems pretty stable, but it's not as long as it is for their male counterparts. I think I understood that. Can you correct me in that understanding if I'm wrong? Also, can you explain the process of collecting data about serving RCMP officers who are women? I'm asking how women-focused information is being gathered, as well as what measurements are being done around women staying in the forces and around women's health outcomes through the period of time in which they serve.One thing we heard from CAF veterans is that if they don't have information documented for the service part, when they get to the veteran section of their life, they're not getting the supports they require because the documentation wasn't done well.I'm wondering whether you could talk about what's happening at the RCMP and how that is going.Patient recordsRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceStatus of womenVeteransNadineHugginsNadineHuggins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1645)[English]Thank you, Chair.Thank you, everyone, for being here and testifying.It's heartbreaking to hear again and again how invisible the women who serve us and become veterans are. Today, it's even clearer.Ms. Edwards, if I could come to you first, you said in your statement that 6.7% of CAF members who were pregnant while serving received specialized physical training, meaning a large number did not. You expressed shock at this. Can you explain why you were shocked? I hope you can tie it into your earlier questioning about peeing yourself. I'm just wondering if you can clarify this. Are there specific health interventions that could help with this for serving members? How is this documented so that it can be understood when women become veterans?Canadian ForcesReproductive healthStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaChrisEdwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]My next part of that question is this: Is that being properly documented so that, when they become veterans, they can claim on that?Canadian ForcesPatient recordsStatus of womenVeteransChrisEdwardsChrisEdwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]Yes.That leads me to another question about your perspectives on the disconnect between the CAF's and VAC's terminology for diagnoses.Canadian ForcesDiagnosisStatus of womenVeteransChrisEdwardsChrisEdwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1705)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Perhaps I will come back to you, Ms. Edwards.Can you explain what you mean by including female biology in training and—in that context—clarify what this means for both service in CAF and the reality of VAC?Canadian ForcesHealthStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaChrisEdwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1745)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.As always, all my questions go through the chair.My first question is this: I read the proposal package. As a person who ran a non-profit for many years, I'm very well versed in these. I didn't see anything in here about the process that was going to happen, in terms of consultation through an online survey. It says in here, “The jury will have overall responsibility for selecting the winning design, based on the combined scores of the jury and technical committee evaluations.”I'm just asking for clarity. Was there anything in there that I somehow missed? If there isn't anything outlined in this proposal process for all the people who submitted, how was this decided upon—that there would be an online survey?Canadian Forces mission in AfghanistanDecision-making processDesignGovernment contractsWar memorialsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1745)[English]My next question, then, is this: I understand there was an online survey, and I see the results of the online survey. I'm wondering how information was verified. I heard the minister talking earlier about places where the survey was advertised, asking people to participate. How was their information verified? How do we know these were actually Afghan veterans, Afghan service people from the civilian side and folks related to Afghan veterans? How was that verified through the process? What I'm hearing—through the chair, of course—is that it represents Afghan veterans' opinions. I'm not clear how that was verified, so we know that, in fact, this is what we're looking at right now.Canadian Forces mission in AfghanistanDesignGovernment contractsWar memorialsPaulLedwellPaulLedwell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1745)[English]I have absolute faith in veterans. I don't know whether I have the same faith in every other person in the world, but I have faith in the veterans.When you say they were self-identifying, what does that mean? Was there a section in the survey where they said, “This is who I am”? Was there any link to people being able to identify, so it could be verified on the other end?Canadian Forces mission in AfghanistanDesignGovernment contractsWar memorialsPaulLedwellPaulLedwell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1750)[English]Thank you. I appreciate that answer.I'm also very curious about how the jury was included in this. Sadly, this seems very confusing. I've heard again and again that this was a political decision. That is heartbreaking to me. We're doing our study on women veterans. We're hearing about how utterly invisible they feel. I think their experience should concern us all. I would hate to be doing to Afghan veterans what has been done for so long to women veterans.Could you explain why it wasn't in the proposal outline that this was going to be included? Was the jury aware of this consultation process? How were they included in deciding the best way to get the information?Canadian Forces mission in AfghanistanDesignGovernment contractsWar memorialsAmyMeunierGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English] Thank you.My last question really circles around this idea of nothing about us without us, which is something that I really try to practise in the work that I do. I understand there was an open public survey where people were able to self-identify who they are, but it wasn't something specifically for Afghan veterans and their loved ones. That's where my concern is, because we're hoping that representation was there but we don't know for sure.My question is, basically, why there was not an investment in a survey that would outreach specifically. We've heard testimony today that you had information and that information was put on the My VAC Account. I know a lot of veterans who would never look at their My VAC Account because of other issues. I'm just wondering. Was it too expensive in the perspective of the department to actually hire an organization that would call those folks, reach out to them, find ways to identify and connect with them and ask their opinions? What we would know, then, is that those veterans were represented and that their voices were heard.In this system I really appreciate the self-identifying, but it doesn't actually meet the need that I have—and this is nothing personal. I have no opinion. I'm not an Afghan veteran, and I am not a person who lost somebody, but it worries me that the outreach.... This seems to be an issue with VAC. All too often the way that veterans are consulted is a general online process, but that doesn't actually connect directly with veterans where they are to find out how things can be done better.I'm just wondering. Was it an issue of money? Why was it not looked at to have something more specific?Canadian Forces mission in AfghanistanDesignGovernment contractsWar memorialsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1630)[English]Thank you, Chair. I want to thank our witnesses today for their incredible bravery and for their service.I think it is important to recognize that when you're part of the first cohort walking into anything, it is incredibly brave to do that work, and it's very clear that nobody really prepared for it. There was no sort of orientation, saying, “This is going to be hard,” and there was no accountability put on the people who were receiving to make sure that the pathway was as safe as possible, so thank you for being here to help us try to make the path safer for other veterans who are women and for other serving women members in the future.What I heard from all three of your testimonies.... I'm going to ask one question. I'll start with you, Nicole, and then move on to the other folks online about this.What I heard in all of your testimony is that because of the fact that you were often silenced and there was a lack of confidence that if you came and told someone, that reality would be reflected back to you in a positive way, and because you were in an environment where it was very much “just get through it”, even though you were doing things that anybody of your physical stature would struggle with.... It was all very normal, but it was treated like it was some sort of bad thing. With the sexual assaults that we heard about from some of our witnesses today, it was just like this abuse that was happening, in that you were not able to share it.I know that when you get over to the VAC side, if you have things not documented, it's very hard to get the supports that you need. I'm just wondering if you could tell us about that challenge and how you were made to be silent—forced to be silent. When you then got to the VAC side, how did you have to try to get them to understand, so that you could get what you needed to heal?BureaucracyDepartment of Veterans AffairsStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNicoleLanglois//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English]Thank you so much.If I could, I'll come to you, Dr. Aiken.NicoleLangloisAliceAiken//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English] Thank you.If I can come to you, Ms. Laverdure, your story, in particular, was around having that terrible, violent throw of 75 feet, if I have that correctly.I'm wondering if that was recorded appropriately, so that you could actually claim when you got to VAC?BureaucracyDepartment of Veterans AffairsHealth care systemStatus of womenVeteransAliceAikenBrigitteLaverdure//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English]Thank you. I think that's my time.BrigitteLaverdureEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Nicole, I'm going to come back to you. You gave us three recommendations. One of them was to have available veteran services that specifically target female veterans. What kinds of services do you think would have been beneficial for you while you were serving?Status of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNicoleLanglois//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]Well, that makes a lot of sense. If you don't know what the services are, it's very hard to access them. Of course, if they had done that while you were serving, things would have been well documented and made a lot easier for you when you got to VAC.In terms of having available veteran services that specifically target female veterans, as a veteran, what services do you think would be helpful that we don't have now?Status of womenVeteransNicoleLangloisNicoleLanglois//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]I think that's an excellent answer. Thank you for that.I want to say, in closing, that your endurance has been impressive. That's to all the witnesses today. I think it's a real testament to your strength. What I'm very sad about is this: When you were being stronger than most people ever have to be, you were being told the exact opposite. Thank you for being here and explaining that to us, so we can better serve veterans.NicoleLangloisEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1715)[English]Thank you, Chair.Ms. Laverdure, I will just come to you for one final question. You spoke earlier, with great honesty, about the fact that you're part of the class action suit, and that one of the challenges, if I understood correctly, is that because you're going through that process, your PTSD is really being triggered, and it's a lot harder.I'm just wondering, when we think about the services from VAC, how that process to contact VAC could be easier when you're in such a vulnerable position.BureaucracyDepartment of Veterans AffairsStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaBrigitteLaverdure//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1715)[English] I hear what is not happening. What do you think would make it better?BureaucracyDepartment of Veterans AffairsStatus of womenVeteransBrigitteLaverdureBrigitteLaverdure//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1715)[English]What I mean is how VAC could be more helpful. You've indicated very clearly that they were saying, “You're already diagnosed. Good enough. That's all you get,” but you're being triggered. What would be more helpful?I'm sorry that I have to ask these questions, but I actually need you to testify, so I can put it in the report.BureaucracyDepartment of Veterans AffairsStatus of womenVeteransBrigitteLaverdureBrigitteLaverdure//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1720)[English]Thank you.My question is around who the witnesses would be for the women veterans study, because what I don't want is to have veterans here and feeling really rushed.As you know, we've been doing two hours. There is space, if we need to take a break, so they have a more positive experience—even though it's very hard. I'm curious whether we could know that, because I think that's really relevant. I'll wait to hear that, and then I may have other commentary.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Are they all women?Committee businessAlexandre (Sacha)VassilievAlexandre (Sacha)Vassiliev//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]They're not veterans. None of them are veterans. Committee businessAlexandre (Sacha)VassilievAlexandre (Sacha)Vassiliev//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English] Thank you.Alexandre (Sacha)VassilievEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1140)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair.Thank you so much, Erin, for being here with us again. It's good to see you.I think what is very clear in your statement, and also in your service in multiple ways to this country, is that making sure that the trust of Canadians in our institutions is a key focus. We must continue to do all that we can to build that trust. Right now, there's uncertainty in Canada. I think it is really important that we take a non-political stance on this, really get to the challenging parts, and create solutions so that people can have faith in our system.I think one of the things that Mr. Chong did an incredible job at before this committee was to really outline the steps that happened. The first thing he talked about, of course, was that he had a briefing from CSIS, who talked to him about how to notice signs of foreign interference. They gave him some helpful tools to help him note that. There was no discussion that in any way he was being targeted. It was given to him just as information. After that, he met with CSIS more than once. However, all of those times he met with them directly because he requested that, based on what he was experiencing and his wanting to share what he was experiencing with them. Then, of course, he found out about what was happening in a Globe and Mail article. I don't think that any member would want to have that experience: to find out through an article that you're being targeted, that your family and loved ones are being targeted. I think that was one of the most embarrassing moments—I hope—for this place.My first question for you—and I'll have a couple of follow-ups—is about the briefing. Mr. Chong said that he hoped that what we would out of this process was a briefing for every member of Parliament about how to notice signs of foreign interference to make us aware of what we could be looking at in our day-to-day work. What are your thoughts on that being the most basic of steps moving forward?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationMembers of ParliamentParliamentary privilegeWork-based trainingBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooErinO'TooleHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]Well, thank you for that.One of the things that we've heard repeatedly in this study—and then, of course, in our other study on foreign interference in elections—is that there's a threshold of intelligence. Sometimes information is coming in. It has to be assessed, and there's a desire to make sure that it's fulsome before it's actually delivered. I'm not sure that the particular incidents we're talking about meet that.From your background in the military.... I'm just wondering what your thoughts are. What is a threshold that you would feel more comfortable with?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeErinO'TooleHon.ErinO'TooleHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1205)[English] It's good to get to ask you another round of questions.Mr. O'Toole, I called you Erin first. I apologize if I was too informal.You talked about hoping that Justice Hogue will hear the three questions you asked. Of those three questions, what I found particularly interesting was the concern that there was no interview done after the election with you and your campaign manager.Looking back, as a person who's led a party through an election in which there were aspects of foreign interference that we're still trying to quantify, what do you think would have made that process a lot more helpful to you in the work that you are doing?ChinaFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooErinO'TooleHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English] Thank you for your card, Mr. O'Toole, but it looks like we are going to get our last round together, which I'm really excited about.I appreciate your understanding how important it is that intelligence, CSIS, and whatnot meet a threshold. Identifying with that threshold seems to be part of the problem here because I think we all can agree that the process that has happened with regard to you, to MP Kwan and to MP Chong, is just not a threshold that we want to see.We have heard testimony in this committee about the fact that the people who are assessing the intelligence don't always understand the process of how politics is implemented in the different parties and what intelligence may mean.Could you give any thoughts to how we could bring more intelligence into the political realm to understand how elections flow and the impact that things may have so that there's a better understanding of threshold as we move forward?ChinaFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooErinO'TooleHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Thank you for that. I know you are a very busy man and that you need to get on, so I will finish my questions there. Thank you again for coming in, and for answering that question. I feel as if it helps us move forward. I look forward to the next committee meeting and to discussing the member's motion. I hope, of course, that my friends from the Conservatives remember that we've had testimony in this place. Giving the papers to the law clerk is not the safest route, moving forward. It's never been done, and we have partners in other countries who have never done anything like that. This has been testified to here, and it could be of great concern for our relationships with the other Five Eyes partners. I am done. Thank you so much.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeErinO'TooleHon.BardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1650)[English]He called for the vote, and I am happy to support that, so I would call the vote.The Chair: I would like to know if—An hon. member: You have to vote.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1705)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.Through the chair, I would like to start first with Senator Busson. Thank you so much for being here. I want to thank you for reminding us that we need to remember the RCMP veterans. I really appreciate that. It's good to be held to account. I will say that indirectly I was talking about them when I talked about the gold digger clause, but I didn't mention that directly. I think it's really important feedback, so I appreciate that. I also want to thank you for mentioning the gold digger clause. Everybody knows it's a passion of mine. We continue to do work on that. I would just like to acknowledge the ongoing work by the RCMP women veterans council. I think the work there is really powerful. Of course, it's chaired by Jane Hall from B.C.I also want to acknowledge that it was RCMP women who had their “me too” moment before the CAF. They did a lot of tremendous work around the CAF-DND sexual misconduct class action. We learned a lot from that. I want to recognize the hard work those women did. It's never easy to stand up and say the thing that is hard. One thing that I find troubling about this complete study, and that I have no remedy for, is that we have to ask veterans to come and bleed in front of us so that we can put something on paper to try to prove that this is the reality. That does make me struggle a lot. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on the RCMP double-dipping pension clawback, and if you feel that has been handled. Is that something you could talk to the committee about a bit?ClawbackPensions and pensionersRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaBeverleyBussonHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1710)[English]Thank you for that. I think that's really important.Through the chair, perhaps I can go to Ms. Rovak next. Thank you for bleeding in front of us. I'm sorry you had to do that. I think it's really important. It's why I fought hard for there to be a trigger warning. I think it's important that we as parliamentarians understand that the reaction may be hard and that we have to carry that story with us. I promise that I will do my best to carry your story with me in the things that I move forward.You said at the end, “I was promised.” That really had an impact on me. You also talked about the “security of truth”. I'm wondering if you could explain what those two things mean to you as a woman veteran and what you felt was not done correctly. Does that make sense?BureaucracyDepartment of Veterans AffairsHealth care systemStatus of womenVeteransBeverleyBussonHon.Anna-LisaRovak//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Thank you, Chair.I would like to ask questions of the Davidson Institute. I have a couple of questions. One is on the intervention made earlier. You spoke about how the numbers were higher and now seem to be going down. I'd like to know why the numbers are going down.Also, could you explain how people are funded to attend your program? Does VAC fund any part of it? Is there ongoing funding or is it by person?Davidson InstituteDepartment of Veterans AffairsStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaAdrienneDavidson-Helgerson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1800)[English]Thank you.I'm going to come back to the Davidson Institute. Again, I'll let you guys decide who's the best person to answer.First, I want to say that, as a B.C. MP, I really got a kick out of what you said about Vernon being the north. I was more north than that, growing up. I'm now on the island, but I remember finding out what the real north of B.C. is. That's another story for another day.I also want to say I've heard from other service providers that they used to be able to do “lunch and learn” with people who worked for VAC, and that was what really engaged people with their programs. Now that they have no capacity—and it was already a challenge for them to figure out when they could come in and do that—it's really slowed down the number of people coming to access services.It sounds like that is a very clear challenge. If we don't know what the services from VAC are, then we don't know whom to refer to, and that doesn't meet the needs of people.I'm wondering about a couple of things. Do you have stats that you could share with the committee about the success, the effectiveness and veteran satisfaction? I think knowing how that feels...we've heard testimony today that it was very empowering, but it would be great to have those stats to help us better understand the outcome.I'm also wondering if you could share what the numbers look like. You talked about there being more, and now they're getting less. It would be good for us to understand the numbers.The third thing is where you're getting stuck. You gave a lot of testimony today about the frustration of working with VAC, but I think in terms of “here's where we get stuck the most”, it would be really helpful for us as a committee, so that we can better articulate it in the report and VAC can see that's what the challenge is.Davidson InstituteDepartment of Veterans AffairsStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaChristinaRochford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the minister's being here today and I congratulate him on his new role. As the representative of 19 Wing, I will also remind him that I have a lot of things to talk to him about, through the chair, and I really look forward to having those discussions to support some truly amazing people who serve our country.I appreciate, through your testimony, that the first you heard of this incident was when you read about it in the The Globe and Mail. I think probably what is even more shocking and horrifying for me is that Mr. Chong read about it for the first time in The Globe and Mail. I can't imagine finding out that my family and I were under some sort of reality that was not clear at all, and reading about it in the news is not the best way moving forward.You said as well they had a secret to tell you and that you had no idea. Then you also talked about some of the things that are being done to remedy that.I know you have talked about it before, but could you talk about what you feel was done to start to remedy that and let us know what you left to the new minister and what you left behind to be completed so that this doesn't happen again.ChinaCorrective actionForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBillBlairHon.Scarborough Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English] Thank you, Minister. I really appreciate that, and I understand that Mr. Chong did get a defensive review. It did not give him the information about his family. I think it's important that we don't confuse the two.He's also been very clear that he feels this is something that all MPs should receive, because having that information about how to be perceptive of how you might be targeted really allowed him to have some tools in his tool kit to notice things, but it did not give him the information that he so desperately needed which was poignant to him and his family actually being targeted.I know that foreign interference in our elections is an ever-expanding reality. Figuring out how to secure sharing processes, how to make sure the information is getting where it needs to get and when it should get to that place is all changing rapidly. I respect that, but I am also very concerned that MPs could be targeted in a very personal way and not know that. That means there's no capacity—when you don't know, you don't know—to actually deal with the issues. You talked about how, in your new role as Minister of Defence, you receive information a lot more frequently now, because of the work that you do. You talked about having information coming and doing a “date received” and a “date read”, so that is calculated, and there's some way of tracking information, which I think is lacking in the study that we're doing right now on the question of privilege motion. Is it important for us to look, with this new reality, at having a more secure location for the Minister of Public Safety in order to get this information in a more secure way, but more rapidly, and have that accountability of a “date received” and a “date read”?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeSecurity intelligenceBillBlairHon.Scarborough SouthwestBillBlairHon.Scarborough Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.Minister, since you are now Minister of Defence, could you share with us what you carried from this experience to this new role that you play? What steps have you taken to ensure that intelligence from DND is properly disseminated to Global Affairs Canada?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBillBlairHon.Scarborough Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. Those are all my questions.BillBlairHon.Scarborough SouthwestBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1605)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.Thank you for being here, Minister. I really appreciate it. Welcome to this new role. I look forward to working with you and, hopefully, in a good way.I want to acknowledge that in the audience we have a lot of veterans. It's really good to see that. We have not only veterans here, of course, but the people who support veterans. Thank you as well for being here.I do see that our Persian Gulf War veteran is here, so I hope, Madam, that you are taking this concern.... I hope you've been aware of it and that you take it up pretty seriously.I also want to personally welcome Phil, who is here. He is a veteran who has been outside of the House for the last few days and is actually on the third day of a hunger strike. I'm calling on you, Minister, to meet with him very soon, hopefully, to address the real issues that he has. I just thought I would bring that to your attention.Hon. Ginette Petitpas Taylor: If I may—Ms. Rachel Blaney: I need a quick response because I have only six minutes.Department of Veterans AffairsGovernment policyVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English] Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.You know, for me, I'm always going to ask questions about marriage after 60, because I have committed to many veterans and their spouses that this is a fight that I will continue fighting as long as I possibly can, hoping for a resolution sooner rather than later. Mr. Chair, there was great participation at my event for women veterans. The minister was there and had a chance to meet with Madeline Landry, a person I have a great amount of respect for. Of course, I know that Madeline shared her story. The reality is that she was married for over 20 years to her veteran spouse and she now does not receive any survivor pension benefits.We know that the annual pension payout from the federal government is $12 billion. According to the PBO report, eliminating the gold digger clause would add an increase of less than 2% to the annual payout. I'm confused as to why this isn't addressed. I get a lot of largely women calling my office who are quite elderly and who tell me that they are not gold diggers. I believe that they are not gold diggers. In 2019, $150 million was put aside for the survivor's benefit. We're now in 2023. This is a crisis. Minister, when you will eliminate this clause?Department of Veterans AffairsGovernment policyMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—DieppeGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1610)[English]Thank you. I'm sure a lot of these folks can self-identify and give you proper documentation. I hope that's done quickly. We need to get that money out the door for largely women who are struggling with immense poverty after years and years, in some cases, of caring for veterans.I hear a lot from veterans about how bureaucratic the process is. There's frustration that they can't get things done. One thing that comes up a lot is that of course they have to submit, for a lot of their claims, medical documentation within 30 days. We all know in this country that a lot people don't have family doctors. Trying to fit into that timeline can be very, very challenging. We also know that the Veterans Review and Appeal Board has approved at 98% the claims for tinnitus and hearing loss. I'm just wondering, when are we going to get that automatic approval for this? This would really help with the amount of work that is being done in the department, and it would honour these folks. It seems a shame that they apply for it and then they have to go to the Veterans Review and Appeal Board, where the rate is 98%. I think if we have an extra 2% who shouldn't have it, it's better than a lot of people not having the supports that they desperately need.BureaucracyDepartment of Veterans AffairsGovernment policyMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—DieppeGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]Thank you, Chair.Through you to the minister, I want to reflect on the fact that in some of the responses, I've heard you talking about efficiencies of services. I appreciate that, but what concerns me about that is that it's a departmental response to say, “Trying to be ever more efficient”. The real human concern of many veterans is that efficiency may be impacting in a negative way the services they require to have time and space. Again, a lot of the discussions I'm having with veterans are about how they want to see a department that's more veteran-centric. I hope that is work you will endeavour to do.I want to touch on women veterans. As you know, the committee is finally studying women veterans. This is the first time it has ever been done in this place, which I think is quite astonishing. We've heard from a lot of women veterans—especially older women veterans who enlisted prior to 2000—who do not have appropriate medical documentation. The reason is that they were really new and there was pressure to not stand out, to be quiet and to not bring forward issues because they were concerned about harassment, bullying and other activities that were intimidating. Of course, there's also the sad history of our forces in terms of sexual misconduct.The gap has been acknowledged by both DND and CAF. I am really curious about how this is going to be addressed, because so many women veterans are not getting the benefits they deserve because they simply do not have the medical documentation—for no fault of their own. Retired captain Louise Siew was here from the navy. One of her recommendations really stuck with me, namely, that is to better to support women by giving them the disability benefit claims and just doing an automatic approval process because of the recognition by both DND and CAF. This would make such a big difference for these women, who are put in a place where they have to fight so often.Department of Veterans AffairsGovernment policyStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English] Thank you, Chair.I'll come back to the question I asked in the last round. I'll get her name right this time. Retired captain Louise Siew of the navy encouraged VAC to acknowledge and apologize for making it so difficult for women to receive those benefits, and recommended that an automatic approval process be put in place that does not require medical documentation.I'm just wondering if this is something you would be willing to explore.Application processDepartment of Veterans AffairsDisability benefitsDisabled veteransGovernment policyVeteransWomenEmmanuelDubourgBourassaGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English]I only have a few more seconds. I have to interrupt you, and I apologize.I will say that we have repeatedly heard that women veterans feel invisible. If they feel invisible, then we need to make them visible. I'm calling on you to do that.We know that at commemoration events lots of women veterans are often asked if they're wearing their husband's medals. That concerns me greatly. I'm wondering if there are any discussions moving forward about having an official acknowledgement of women veterans at commemoration services, so that we can make what is so often invisible, visible.CommemorationsDepartment of Veterans AffairsGovernment policyVeteransWomenGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—DieppeGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Thank you, Chair.I want to acknowledge again that I appreciate the minister for meeting with my friend Phil. I know he has no resources, and it's a shame having a veteran starving on our doorsteps. I really appreciate it and hope that it's dealt with as urgently as is required.I have a question about the veteran and family well-being fund. My office has heard from a lot of smaller organizations that their applications for funding are being denied. I am seeing that a lot of larger organizations are often receiving very significant amounts of money. Could the minister share with the committee how the decisions are made, who is making the decisions and whether there's clear criteria for how those decisions are being made?Department of Veterans AffairsGovernment policyVeteran and Family Well-Being FundVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English] I have less than a minute.PaulLedwellPaulLedwell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Thank you.A proposal did come to the minister's office back in June from a group that's working on a project called the Burns Way. They haven't heard anything back. I have met with the group, and it sounds like their project really focuses on connecting veterans to veterans. I think that is something incredibly important. I'm wondering if they will hear back, and I hope the minister will meet with them to discuss how this might be a project that could move forward.Department of Veterans AffairsGovernment policyVeteran and Family Well-Being FundVeteransPaulLedwellGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1125)[English]Well, I don't know how long it is until the bells—BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1125)[English]It's not showing.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1125)[English]I'm fine with that. I think we can get to the House pretty quickly. BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1125)[English]Thank you, Chair.Thank you, Mr. Stewart, for being here. I really appreciate it. I've listened very closely to your testimony today. I heard very clearly that there is a huge amount of information that comes in on a regular basis and that you have an army with different categories of people that is working on that information. We've heard repeatedly that one of the challenges, of course, is going through all of that information and finding out if there actually is a threat. There is a minimum threshold, and it sounds like everybody is waiting until that threshold is hit before any action is taken. I am trying to understand this, and I hope that you can help me. I want to recognize that this is a changing reality, and technology is changing so quickly that across the planet I think everybody is trying to figure out how to catch up to this new reality. What is the process specifically for MPs? Why I ask that is that we're here on a question of privilege of a member in this place who did not get information that would have been helpful for him to have. As we are in this reality, I think it's important that Canadians trust our institutions, trust the processes that are in place, and that people who put their name forward to sit in these seats have some assurance that, as they're doing their work, there are processes that are looking after what's happening in terms of foreign interference in the work they do.Could you help us in any way to understand the process? Is there a particular process for MPs? I understand that a lot of people are targeted, and I would assume that different categories of people being targeted would have streamlines of how that process unfolds. I'm wondering if that's the case for elected officials. ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooRobStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1125)[English]It seems to me that a lot of these concerns are coming through social media. I know that is a hard thing to quantify and that there are different methods for every different type of social media. I also understand that social media themselves have regulations or rules that are internal to their organizations.When it comes to elections, how is that monitored? If a social media site is not doing its work to monitor these issues that they have a commitment to doing, what is the recourse in Canada? Do you have any sense of that, or who would be the right person to talk to?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeSocial networking sitesRobStewartRobStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English] I think that's going to be the hardest part of the next few years. It's figuring out how to source that information.I understand—and please correct me if I'm wrong—that RRM Canada works with academia and civil society to conduct research. I'm wondering if you could share any information about what those partnerships might look like and what the research is telling us.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeRobStewartRobStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]You have nothing.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeRobStewartRobStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]That's fair enough.This is my next question for you. I noticed that in your testimony you talked about the fact that information is not emailed, and that it's downloaded, I think you said, printed out and then provided to the people who are supposed to have it. Can you talk about, first of all, why it's not emailed? Second of all, it's downloaded from where?ChinaCommunication controlForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeRobStewartRobStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Thank you.RobStewartBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1215)[English] Thank you so much, Chair.This is of particular importance to me as well because one of my members was also targeted. I know that it is a growing concern. I think that as we look at democracy, we have to do all that we can to protect it, and that means protecting the system.Of course, the focus right now is on the election period, which I understand and I think it's important, but we also know there are activities happening in between elections. Even if it's targeting a particular member, it creates a trend that is concerning to me.I know that RRM Canada leads the G7 RRM. I'm wondering if you could share with us how are those folks coming together to talk about best practices with what's happening. Is there any discussion about having more work done in between elections to address some of these trends we're seeing that are concerning and that add up to a bigger impact during the election?What I'm worried about is if we simply are waiting to address this at election time, without that understanding that between election time is also very important for election time, we're going to be missing important factors.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooRobStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1100)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I wanted to have a quick moment to ask a question about what the schedule will be in committee for the next couple of weeks. I know we have a matter that we still need to discuss and finalize, and I'm just wondering whether there will be time in the next week or so to do that work.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1100)[English]Thank you for that, Chair. I hope we can take that time to figure out committee business, but of course, that's up to the committee as a whole. Hopefully we can do that, and I support that.The other question I have is how long the analysts think it will take to get all the information together on the privilege motion.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English] Thank you so much, and welcome back. It's always good to visit.I'm trying to get little bit more clear here. I think I understand, but it sounds like your department was watching during the by-elections. I want to clarify. Does that mean that during elections is the only time that this has been requested and that, outside of any kind of election, the work isn't being done?ChinaFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooTaraDenham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Thank you for that because one of the things I found interesting about your testimony was that your department, the group, was looking at the by-elections and then found something about another MP. That's a bit concerning to me because it's sort of like, if there were not any by-elections, that information could have been out there and we would not have been aware of it. We wouldn't be sitting where we are right now. In fact, MPs would still be under a level of threat that, I think, is concerning.I'm just wondering if there are any recommendations that you have around how we can be gathering that information so that we're not put into this position as a Parliament. It is important that this place actually protect its members.The other part is that it took quite a while. I'm curious about.... With a much larger election, instead of just a few by-elections, if it takes two months to get that information clarified—and I understand that you don't want to just throw it out there and create chaos without having that clarity of information—how is this place, or Canada, going to be able to do it so that, during an election, information is made clear so that this doesn't take over an election and cause people to lose because of massive misinformation? I would hate to be going through the incredible work of an election in any role that you play and then finding out at the end that there was a targeted attack that created so much misinformation that your election was then questionable.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeTaraDenhamTaraDenham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I have a couple of questions. Since I have such a short time, maybe I'll ask both of them and then let you do your best to answer.First of all, I agree that this needs to be dealt with urgently. It's not just about protecting MPs; it's also about protecting democracy and candidates. Could you share a little bit about what lessons were learned from the by-elections and how that is impacting the next steps to prepare for ongoing elections?I noticed in your response to me last time around that you talked a lot about how Canadians need to understand misinformation, and you implied that we kind of are. I'll tell you that in my riding I'm seeing an increase in misinformation and in people being very confused and sometimes very angry and frustrated based on things that are totally misinformation. The resources to help support people are not easy to find. I'm wondering about the work you do, especially around human rights, freedoms and inclusion, which is really about educating people so they know what's coming at them and how to decipher that.I want to know about lessons learned and what's happening around actually educating Canadians.ChinaDisinformationForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooTaraDenham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English] I understand that you're in conversations about what the lessons learned were. Will there be anything that comes out publicly or that can be sent to this committee to let us know what was learned from the process? I'm just wondering. ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeTaraDenhamTaraDenham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English] Thank you, Chair. Through the chair, welcome, Mr. MacDonald. I appreciate your being here.I do understand—on the most basic level, I admit—that things are changing very rapidly. This area is moving so quickly it's hard to even stay close, let alone ahead of the issue. I think of my recent trip to Denmark, where I met with NATO parliamentarians. I heard from multiple countries that they are struggling with this as well and are trying to figure out how to address these issues. Technology is changing and growing in ways that we can't even begin to fathom. This environment changes so rapidly. I appreciate the challenges. I appreciate as well the need to make sure that information is vetted so that it's not just given out without context and is creating fear where fear does not necessarily need to be. However, in the case where it could be something that we're worried about.... We are sitting around this table talking about a question of privilege for one of the parliamentarians who brought it forward. I know that other parliamentarians have been impacted. I know that one in my caucus as well has been impacted. I think the concern for parliamentarians and the concern for Canadians is that we need to be able to trust our system. When the fear begins and we don't have trust or faith in our system, it really can lead to things that I don't think any of us want to experience.I guess my question really is this. As this picture, as I think you referred to it earlier, gets more and more complex and harder and harder to assess, how do we create information that will help protect parliamentarians and also help Canadians have faith in our system? I know that's a really profound and big question—I'm sure you can't answer it in, like, 30 seconds or less—but this is where I personally am struggling as we go through this. A lot of my constituents are hard-working people. They watch things happening, and they don't always understand all the nuances. Quite frankly, they're busy. They're doing the work they need to do and are struggling along on their own path. To me, when I look at this process, I want to make sure that we're building faith and building consistency so that people can trust those systems and we MPs can know that we'll be alerted if we're targeted.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMikeMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Thank you for that.Again, what I'm hearing, though, is that some of this information came to the member of Parliament, Mr. Chong, and to us.... Well, it was in the media. This is really concerning for me. This isn't the way we should be learning about this information. One of the challenges is how quick the response is and how the information gets to us. I keep hearing about the need to assess the information before it comes out. I understand that, but how can we see that happen more quickly? Is there a way that we can do it? Is it more resources? Is it increased training? Is it having more people?To me, there's a bit of a challenge here. I don't want to disrespect the hard work that's happening. I just want to find out how we can make sure that parliamentarians know more quickly so that we don't get lost in this sort of situation that we're in now.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeMikeMacDonaldMikeMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1030)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. I thank the witness for being here with us today. Thank you for having this discussion about a challenge for many different levels of other governments across the planet that are looking at this new view. Of course, you in your role have to figure out the procedure within the House. I appreciate very much your dedication and work.One of the things that we are really seized with in this process that we're going through around foreign interference in our elections and how it directly impacts some of the members of Parliament in our system is trying to figure out how to get information shared with us in a way that we can access some of it, while also recognizing that we have to respect top secret information and, of course, making sure that we keep our partnerships strong with different countries that share information with us.One of the questions that I have, and I believe you talked about it a bit with one of the previous questioners.... Can you share anything with us on how information is shared when it is very top secret within your system?Also, is there a history of any other department within the House of Commons taking information—for example, for us, it would be from CSIS—and reviewing it? The example I am thinking of, particularly here in Canada, is we have had an offer for the law clerk within the House of Commons to receive the information and review that information, and their office will decide what should be redacted and what should not be. We've heard several testimonies that that is not the safest way to go forward because, of course, the people who are enmeshed in the work are the best people to do the redactions. I'm wondering if you have ever seen that happen within the system that you're working in.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooEveSamson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1035)[English] Thank you for that.I only have a few seconds, so this is my last quick question.I know that here, of course, when an MP is elected, they get training on different aspects of being a parliamentarian. I'm just wondering if there is any expansion of training, through the House, on how to identify if foreign interference may be impacting you.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationMembers of ParliamentParliamentary privilegeWork-based trainingEveSamsonEveSamson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1100)[English] I have the last question for you today, and again, thank you so much for being here.Quickly, you talked about your security department. Here, of course, we have similarly the Sergeant-at-Arms. One of the changes we have made concerning foreign interference—or that is in the process of changing, I should say—is more connection with the Sergeant-at-Arms, who will connect with the members of Parliament and let them know whether they are being targeted for anything specific around foreign interference.I'm wondering if you have a similar process and how that is effective or whether there are any concerns.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooEveSamson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1100)[English]Thank you.EveSamsonBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Thank you, Chair. Of course I thank the witnesses for being here.I'm going to start by asking a question or two to Mr. Elcock. Thank you again for being here.We've heard a lot of testimony over the last several months and we also have heard very clearly from Canadians that they're worried about what's happening in terms of foreign interference and what that means for our democracy. Of course, my major concern is that if Canadians lose faith in their institutions, it becomes very hard to do the things we need to do in a safe way.We've heard a lot of testimony from ministers about not knowing that certain MPs were being targeted or about how that information was provided but they didn't receive it in a timely fashion. It just doesn't seem to make any sense.I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts, given your time serving in that role, about communication processes and if you had any concerns at that time about making sure that people had the right information to make decisions they needed to make at those levels. ChinaCommunication controlForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooWardElcock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Thank you for that.The current CSIS legislation says very clearly that if an MP is targeted, it's really up to the minister to decide what information is given to members of Parliament. Of course, we know there has been a change to that process, through a ministerial directive, but I'm still concerned about that. In your view, is it time for us to review that section of legislation, and is there a better process to review it into a more regulated format?ChinaCommunication controlForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeWardElcockWardElcock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English] Well, another discussion we've had here is around education and having broader education for Canadians on the whole, so they better understand what foreign interference could look like and at least have that critical thought. You talked about building a culture of concern. Do you think that education of members of Parliament, all levels of government and everyday Canadians would be a key part of that process?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationNational securityParliamentary privilegeWardElcockWardElcock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Thank you for that.When you talk about a culture of concern, how do we create that? What's your opinion on that?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationNational securityParliamentary privilegeWardElcockWardElcock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you so much, Madam Chair.I'm going to come back to Mr. Elcock.You just answered my colleague's previous question. You said that it needs to be broader, that the conversation you're seeing so far in the public sphere is too narrow and that the foreign agent registry is not the only thing that needs to happen.In what way do you think it needs to be in terms of broadening? What are the areas that we should be focusing on, and where do you feel that we're being too narrow in our discussions?ChinaForeign influence transparency registryForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooWardElcock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you.I think that brings us back to a really important point, which is that diaspora communities have been coming forward for a very long time and have been talking about their concerns, but are not feeling they are really getting the response they require.When you discuss this, do you think having better connections with those communities and really amplifying those voices are important parts of our addressing the issues of foreign interference?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeWardElcockWardElcock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]I'm fine to move forward with this meeting in public. I'm not as comfortable about voting for this evening. I'm hoping we get everything done today in this hour. If we can't, then my recommendation is that we can then vote on whether we're going to be in public or in camera at the next meeting. I don't know if that's perceived as a friendly amendment—I know it doesn't exist—but I am fine with this hour. If I need to move an amendment, I guess I'll hear from Mr. Cooper.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelCooperSt. Albert—Edmonton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]No, I think that Mr. Cooper heard what I was laying down and he picked it up. I think we're good to go. I'm happy to support his motion for just this one hour of committee.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]Thank you so much, Madam Chair.I just think we should get to the vote, so I'm calling the vote.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1740)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.I thank our witnesses for being here today. I always enjoy hearing from you.Mr. Casey asked you a question about statistics and numbers. Could you formally send that to the committee? I would really appreciate that.My first question is for Mr. McNeil.I'm trying to understand the process here. When the VRAB makes decisions that are different from the VAC decisions, how does that work in terms of interpreting or changing policy?To clarify, I understand that VRAB has a more favourable outcome—I think is what you said—for tinnitus claims than VAC. When that happens, it may not seem fair to all veterans. I'm wondering how you work with VAC to balance that. Does that happen?BacklogsDecision-making processVeterans benefitsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardEmmanuelDubourgBourassaChristopherMcNeil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1740)[English]Thank you for that. I'll have to look into that.You also mentioned in your discussion with us—correct me if I'm wrong—that you saw a 30% increase in cases coming to the board. I'm wondering, with that increase, whether you are seeing a particular pattern.BacklogsVeterans benefitsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardChristopherMcNeilChristopherMcNeil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1740)[English] That's a huge portion. Just going back to that, I know that right now, but not today, our committee is actually doing a study on women veterans. When it comes to dealing with women, you already talked about how there seems to be a bit of a longer period of time for whatever reason and that it is not clear. I'm just wondering, in terms of the cases, whether you have a sense of how many women veteran files you have. Is there a particular pattern with women?BacklogsVeterans benefitsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardWomenChristopherMcNeilChristopherMcNeil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1745)[English]That's really interesting. We had a veteran here last week who was saying that it would be good if we actually saw that recognized in terms of women's claims. It's just to understand the history of women serving and to modify the process so that women are acknowledged for that. It sounds as though you're seeing a very similar thing and actually making decisions that prove that is the case.BacklogsVeterans benefitsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardWomenChristopherMcNeilChristopherMcNeil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1745)[English]Thank you.How many of the cases that VRAB has involve minority veterans groups such as the LGBTQ2S+ community or indigenous veterans?BacklogsIndigenous peoplesSexual and gender minoritiesVeterans benefitsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardChristopherMcNeilChristopherMcNeil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1745)[English]What's the barrier to having those stats? You have stats for francophones and stats for women.BacklogsIndigenous peoplesSexual and gender minoritiesVeterans benefitsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardChristopherMcNeilChristopherMcNeil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1745)[English]That's interesting.I think that's my time.Thank you, Chair.ChristopherMcNeilEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1800)[English] Thank you, Chair.I'm aware that some of you need to fly home, so I will try to keep my questions to the two and a half minutes.I'm trying to get my head wrapped around how there's the connection between VAC and VRAB. There's been a lot of discussion in this committee on the table of disabilities and the entitlement eligibility guidelines. I'm wondering if there are any conversations as you're doing the cases and VAC maybe uses that information. Do they ask for information so that when they look at something like this table, they can maybe modify it, taking into consideration the decisions you've made?BacklogsInformationVeterans benefitsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardEmmanuelDubourgBourassaChristopherMcNeil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English]Thank you.Do you have anything to add, Mr. Woodman?BacklogsVeterans benefitsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardChristopherMcNeilStevenWoodman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English]I always hope they're listening to us as well, so I'm hopeful for you.The last question I have is around the GBA+ training. I've seen it is something that is encouraged. I'm wondering if there's any discussions about it being mandated.BacklogsGender-based Analysis PlusVeterans benefitsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardStevenWoodmanChristopherMcNeil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1805)[English]Thank you.Those are my questions.ChristopherMcNeilEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1950)[English]Thank you, Chair.To put on the record quickly, I know we will be called for a vote. My recommendation is that we agree to vote by app, take five minutes to do so and then give these women the precious time they deserve. I'll leave that to you, Chair.First of all, I want to thank the witnesses so much for their powerful testimony today and for their service. I also want to honour all of the women who are there in the room behind you. I am really moved by how many people showed up to stand with you and how important it is that these voices be heard. Thank you for testifying, and thank you also to those who showed up.I think the words and the behaviours you have are symbols of the warriors that you are. I want to thank you for that and for being agents of change and for allowing us, as members of Parliament, to also be agents of change by advocating and amplifying your voice.My first question is to retired major Carly Arkell. I understand that VAC denied your disability claim based on your genetic condition. I'm wondering whether you could talk a little bit about the fact that your physicians were very clear that your service aggravated the condition. Has VAC accepted that?Status of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaCarlyArkell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1950)[English]Thank you.I'm going to go to retired petty officer Lisa Nilsson next.You have a wheelchair that was provided to you while you were still serving in the CAF. Recently, you needed a minor repair. Will you tell the committee what happened when you approached VAC and what you did to fix it?Status of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsCarlyArkellLisaNilsson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1955)[English]Thank you.I understand that if you get a whole physical assessment, VAC will provide you with a brand new wheelchair, over just paying the $50 to repair it. Is that correct?Status of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsLisaNilssonLisaNilsson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]Thank you, Chair.I would like to ask a question of retired leading seaman Nadine Schultz-Nielsen.I'm wondering, based on your testimony, whether you can explain the difference between your PTSD and major depressive disorder.Mental healthPost-traumatic stress syndromeStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNadineSchultz-Nielsen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]Thank you for that.Could you explain the difference between the causes, so PTSD and the cause, and then the major depressive disorder? What do you think is the cause of the major depressive disorder?Mental healthPost-traumatic stress syndromeStatus of womenVeteransNadineSchultz-NielsenNadineSchultz-Nielsen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]Thank you.Retired Captain Siew, very quickly, you talked about changing the adjudication process of disability claims in the context of the needs of all women veterans. I'm wondering whether you could explain what you think that would look like. I think it's a fantastic idea.Disability benefitsStatus of womenVeteransNadineSchultz-NielsenLouiseSiew//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English] Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.I admit that I share frustration with my colleagues and with Canadians about how often it feels that this story is changing from one thing to another. What I keep hearing from the minister, through the chair, of course, is that a ministerial directive has been made and now everything is good. I understand that the ministerial directive was made on this on May 16 to inform MPs if they are being targeted in any way. I think it's also important that we make sure everybody understands that if a new minister is appointed, that directive would have to be made again. It's sort of a short-term solution. I'm not sure that it's actually a full solution, and in fact it's not, but it is a short-term band-aid to deal with this big issue. Is there a timeline to move forward with permanent legislation so that we can see this fixed in a comprehensive way, instead of this ad hoc band-aid solution, keep finding the holes in the sinking boat, patch something up and hope that it works? I'm wondering whether there is an actual plan for legislation.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationLegislationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]You're putting together what I see as needing a fundamental change in legislation to make sure that MPs are oriented appropriately and you're mixing it up with the foreign agent registry. I'm not clear on why you're putting those two things together.I guess my first question is what the timeline is for legislation. You didn't give me a timeline. I would like a timeline.Second, we know that on May 9 the foreign agent registry consultation was closed. When are we going to get the “what we heard” report?ChinaForeign influence transparency registryForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegePublic consultationMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—LawrenceMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]My next question is on the diaspora. We know there are long-term communities who have come forward to talk about the challenges they're facing on a personal level with foreign interference and who have largely gone ignored.In the consultation process, how did you include these communities? In the rollout process of the foreign agent registry, I'm wondering how you're working with those communities to make sure the rollout is done in a way that is friendly and doesn't target the very people we are trying to get to share with us. ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—LawrenceMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you, Chair.I'm going to come back to the foreign agent registry. I asked a question about how the diaspora would be included in the rollout of that program. Can I get something clear that says you're going to have a committee, that you're going to have...? I want to get that clarified. That's question number one.The second question I have for the minister is on how Mr. Chong talked about the defensive briefing he received. At that time, he had no idea that he and his family, both overseas and here, were being targeted, but he did find it very helpful. I'm wondering, is there any movement towards having MPs all receiving some sort of defensive briefing because of how helpful it seems that it was? Also, how about candidates in future elections? Could you answer those two questions?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English]Will it be expanded during elections for candidates as well?ChinaElectoral candidates and nominationsForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—LawrenceMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English] Thank you so much, Chair. I thank both of the witnesses for being here today.One of the questions that I continue to pursue is the need to see legislation updated.I'm going to ask both the witnesses this question. I'll start off with you, Mr. Jean, because I'll be quoting you from when you were visiting us here on April 18. You did talk about the fact that we haven't reviewed the CSIS Act “since 1984”. You said that we “should have [a] regular review” and the “review should not be about just looking mechanically at the legislation, but [should bring] forward new measures”.I'm wondering if you could talk a bit—and, like I said, this question is for both witnesses—about what we need to be looking at and what pieces of legislation we've seen in other countries that might best give us input in this committee to address this issue of figuring out the best process to ensure members of Parliament know when they are being targeted and that they're given the information they need to look after not only their own concerns but those of their family members.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDanielJean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Okay. The minister spoke earlier today about the ministerial directive that just has opened the doors to share information. He seems to think that this is the solution. I think the solution is legislation. I'm wondering about your thoughts on that.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationLegislationParliamentary privilegeDanielJeanDanielJean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Thank you.Mr. Juneau-Katsuya, I do have a question for you. You have been to the committee—on May 11—and you talked about one of the biggest gaps of course being the nomination process. We know that every party has its own process of how they do nominations. When we look at this and we see that there's a particular gap there, and we recognize there may be a lack of information or a lack of awareness at that party level, how do we bridge that gap? It's very important that in the roles the government plays they're not seen as partisan, but it seems to me that the parties themselves need information to be able to address these kinds of particular gaps that lead to greater vulnerability. I'm just wondering if you have any recommendations for us on that.ChinaElectoral candidates and nominationsForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeDanielJeanMichelJuneau-Katsuya//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Thank you.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I'm going to come back to Mr. Juneau-Katsuya. I'm curious. When you were here back in May, you talked about the chain of command being a roadblock and how CSIS and RCMP reporting goes directly to the PM. Often, that's where the roadblock is. I think of the issues for members of Parliament, the realities of foreign interference and what that means for both themselves and their loved ones. I look at the diaspora community, what their needs are and the fact that we've heard a lot of testimony from people coming forward to talk about specific activities they've identified that they're very concerned about. They are often coming forward at great risk to themselves and their loved ones. It gets stuck along the way. I am wondering whether you could talk a little about what this blockage is and how we can get to resolving it. Is that part of your vision around the foreign interference act, for example?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichelJuneau-Katsuya//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1905)[English] Chair, before I start, I just want to let you know that I got bumped off. We have a bit of a wind storm here. If you could watch the interpreters to make sure that my sound is good, I would really appreciate that.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1905)[English]Thank you so much. The interpreters work hard for us, so I want to make sure we do right by them.I want to thank the witnesses so much for being here today. I have a question. Mr. Morrison was here earlier today and spoke about Mr. Chong's receiving a defensive briefing. When Mr. Chong came to our committee, he was very clear that it was very, very helpful. The problem, of course, was that he didn't know, while he was receiving that briefing, that he was a target and that his family, both in the country and outside of the country, were potentially a target. There are some really big concerns there.Why was the choice made to give him this information but to not inform him of the concerns that it was indirectly addressing? The second part of that question is: How many members of Parliament got a defensive briefing?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationMembers of ParliamentParliamentary privilegeSecurity intelligenceBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1905)[English]I still didn't get an answer as to how many MPs. I'm going to ask that again, but I also want to point out that I think what you said is interesting, that it was really targeted. Although Mr. Chong didn't know the whole story, the information was targeted. How many MPs have been briefed? I don't need to know names; I just want a general, ballpark figure.The other thing is that Mr. Chong said very clearly in this committee that it was extremely helpful. The briefing helped him have awareness, and he started to see things differently in terms of activities that were happening.I'm just wondering if there is a plan to have defensive briefings for more MPs or, in fact, all MPs. Is there a general way that MPs can learn how to notice what's happening, so that we can also be part of the solution by letting the appropriate officials know?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationMembers of ParliamentParliamentary privilegeSecurity intelligenceDavidVigneaultDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1910)[English]Thank you for that. I have just a few seconds left. One of the things that have come up again is that misinformation attempts are particularly problematic in rural, indigenous and ethnic communities. The vulnerability is higher there because of the lack of information, and maybe a lack of reliable media sources. I'm just wondering if there is any work being done on addressing that huge gap. ChinaDisinformationForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeDavidVigneaultDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Thank you, Chair.I'm going to come back to my last question, because I didn't hear anything about rural communities. I also thought I heard somebody say, “May I add...?” If there's something that I missed, I would enjoy hearing it.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooCherieHenderson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1930)[English]Thank you so much.I want to come back to the diaspora communities that have been calling out and ringing the alarm bell for a great many years. We have heard from witnesses at this committee that many from those communities feel ignored and unsafe when they've gone to the RCMP. They have case files, but they just don't hear back.I heard you talk about a stakeholder engagement group. Are there terms of reference? What is the strategy of that group? Could we see the terms of reference, if that's possible?Canadian Security Intelligence ServiceChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeCherieHendersonDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1955)[English]Thank you. I'm going to come back to the stakeholder engagement groups. You ended at a perfect place for me to continue my questions.I'm curious about how people are selected for the stakeholder engagement group. What are the criteria, and do they change to reflect any sort of threat we might see from other countries? If a new country is becoming a threat, is there the flexibility to respond to that and make sure that the stakeholder engagement group is reflective of the issues we are facing?Canadian Security Intelligence ServiceChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2000)[English]Following up on that, does the diversity of the stakeholder engagement group reflect some of the groups that you're trying to reach? When I think about the testimony we have heard so far from some of these groups, they have talked about the fact that there is often a high level of fear preventing people from coming forward. They are concerned about their loved ones overseas. They are concerned about their own safety and that of their family. We know a lot of those communities have a very poor relationship with previous governments and police in terms of the authoritarian governments. How is this outreach? I think of these groups. They have been ringing the bells. They have been saying that this is happening and they weren't heard, so I want to make sure that the systems you are putting in place actually bring them in instead of just pushing them further away. Canadian Security Intelligence ServiceChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeDavidVigneaultDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2030)[English] Thank you so much, Chair.I have just one question. There has been discussion and testimony from both of you today about the intersection between consumers of intelligence and receivers and preparers of intelligence. One of the things we've heard is that one of the challenges is around political awareness. If you're preparing information for a political world, how do you make sure the information makes sense, and what are you looking for that's meaningful?We have heard testimony from some of the national campaign managers, who said that during the election, the interactions they had to learn about foreign interference and be briefed really felt like ticking a box. It didn't really give them what they needed to assess the issues more fulsomely. I'm just wondering what work is being done to prepare for the next election, to understand how politics works on the ground and how to have appropriate information to guide people to do things correctly and to be able to identify when there is a threat.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2030)[English]You're saying it's a priority, but you didn't say if there are any concrete actions that are happening right now to address that. It seems to me that we should always be preparing for the next election.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeDavidVigneaultDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1025)[English] Thank you so much, Madam Chair.I thank our witnesses for being here today and for their testimony.My first question is this. Just out of curiosity, we are talking about a matter of privilege, one in which MPs are being targeted. As the RCMP proceed with their investigation about these allegations, how do you keep the members of Parliament updated?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelDuheme//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1030)[English]Thank you for that.I'm definitely not asking for details; I'm really interested in the process. I think, as parliamentarians, our job is to best understand the process and to understand where gaps are so that we can make recommendations that help us move forward.It's very clear that this reality—and you've mentioned it before in the testimony—is quickly changing, and it's not something you were looking at the same way. We know that it's evolving quickly. It's challenging to catch up to it, but we still need to have the information and the tools to provide supports.I'm just wondering, in terms of process, when gaps are identified at your level, how does this information get passed on to your intelligence partners so there can be that dialogue about how to make sure the flow of information is happening in an effective way that will protect Canadians regardless of whether they're an MP, a citizen or a permanent resident?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeMarkFlynnMarkFlynn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1030)[English]Thank you.We've had diaspora community members testify that, when they bring forward concerns about issues of foreign interference and about how they're being targeted, they're not really getting the assistance they perceive that they need. I think that's really important. I know Jenny Kwan has talked about this a lot—the fact that she has been targeted—but she has the voice of an MP, so to bring this awareness to people about her experience is a lot easier. There are many in these communities who can't do that and who don't have the same ability to bring forward their concerns.I'm just wondering, do you require more tools—we talked about this earlier—to address this issue? How do you connect with other parties like CSIS and other intelligence folks to check if that member who has come forward to you at that community level is being targeted? How does that work?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeMarkFlynnMarkFlynn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1045)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.My next question returns back to the diaspora communities.We know there's often a level of distrust, especially for newcomers who come to Canada from some of these targeted countries with authoritarian governments. I'm curious if there are strategies for rural and urban communities—because I think they both matter and they're both distinct and different—for how to do that outreach. Does the RCMP have enough resources to spend the time building these relationships? You talked about going forward and some of the work you've done lately with the police stations and starting to build those relationships, but I'm wondering if there are the resources there to do that work.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelDuheme//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. Thank you to Mr. Morrison for being here today to testify.The first question I'm going to ask is just a clarifying one. I think what I heard you say was that you were the temporary NSIA for what you thought was going to be six weeks and it became six months, and that during that time you kept your other job. In fact, it sounds like you were doing two full-time jobs at one time. Is that correct?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Thank you. That is interesting in itself. Those are two very important jobs. It's too bad that somebody didn't see that maybe that was too much for one human being.I have another question. During this time when you were the acting NSIA, you said that the report came to you and it was not intended to cause “action”, that it was just “for awareness”, and that the report did not name any MPs. I'm just wondering: In the pathway of this information, who would ask for the names of MPs? Because it seems to me that there's something there and nobody knew what it was for an extended amount of time, so I'm just wondering, who would ask?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeDavidMorrisonDavidMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Thank you for that.We can argue about whether the action was appropriate from our opinions, but it is alarming to me that we have multiple MPs who were targeted and they just didn't know. That's concerning.You said that Mr. Chong was provided a defensive briefing, but I want to be really clear. According to the testimony that we've heard, he was provided the defensive briefing, but he had no idea that he and his family were being targeted specifically.When you look at that, how does that make sense? If I don't know that I am being targeted, as a human being, and I'm provided information, that information is helpful—Mr. Chong said it was helpful—but it doesn't allow me to assess the issue in a meaningful way. That's what I'm really concerned about, because at the end of the day, to me, this is not partisan. This is a broken system—I don't think everything's broken, but there's a part of it that's broken—that we need to fix so that parliamentarians feel they have faith in the system, and Canadians have faith in the system.Can you explain from your perspective or give me insight as to why he was provided a defensive briefing, but he did not know that both he and his family, both internally and externally to Canada, were being targeted?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeDavidMorrisonDavidMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I'm going to follow up. I think you clarified what you said, which is basically that the function of the protocols that were in place in 2021 were followed. To me, that lets us know that there was a problem with the protocols. That is an opinion that I can have, but I felt that was a clear statement that you made.Ms. Thomas talked to us about looking at that system and changing it fundamentally. She feels it will help to assist in moving it forward.I'm wondering two things. One is, when you were reviewing your position after you left, was there any process where you passed on information to the new person? Were those processes something that you denoted as being a concern in terms of sharing information?The second part is that hopefully you have heard some of Ms. Thomas's testimony: She talked about revamping the system. Having your experience in that role, do you feel that is a good move and does that make sense?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation processingParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1205)[English]I think my time is up, so thank you so much.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeDavidMorrisonBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]Thank you, Chair. I do want to come back to the follow-up piece to the report that you've talked about. You've indicated that you can't give us the memo about it, but you have brought it up several times. What can you tell us, and in what context did you send it? ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]Speaking of foreign interference, we know that one of the challenges is that when we have people in Canada who have loved ones in these authoritarian countries, sometimes what they are asked to do is impacted by what could happen in other countries. We know we don't have jurisdiction there. Is there any conversation about how we deal with this, because it is an eminent threat, and just saying that we can't do anything doesn't seem like the best response? In partnership with other countries, is there any discussion about what next steps could be taken to address this issue? ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeDavidMorrisonDavidMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.This will be my final round with you, Mr. Morrison, so I thank you for your time with us today.Something has been niggling in the back of my mind as we have asked you questions. One of the things I remember your saying is that when you receive the intelligence, you trust that action would have been taken—appropriate action.I'm wondering whether I am missing something. We have had intelligence agencies in here and they have testified that they give information but they do not recommend actions. Based on that, I'm trying to understand where in that process you felt that action had been taken.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1305)[English]Thank you.We know that the diaspora communities have been ringing this alarm for quite a while. I think that is one thing I find frustrating about this process. We did have people saying very clearly that there are issues happening and that we should all be aware of them.You have talked to us several times about the fact that Mr. Johnston recommended public hearings with these communities. You amplified the need for that. We've also heard testimony from these communities that they have come forward many times asking for help, but with very little success. These folks, who often come from countries with authoritarian governments, are not interested, necessarily, in talking with government or with police.In the system you're part of, how are voices like theirs heard and amplified? Based on what we're seeing, I don't think they are. I want to know if there is a process and if that is being reviewed internally as well as these public hearings.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegePublic consultationDavidMorrisonDavidMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1710)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I did my best to listen to the discussion about SISIP and the criteria.What would be helpful for me is if we could have both SISIP and VAC share the criteria that they use to determine whether a medical release is related to military service, and if they could divide that between the portions of men and women. It sounds like around sexual trauma there isn't MST. It's not something that SISIP is looking at. Perhaps you could just write that down on something to us and send it to the clerk. VAC, if you could let us know how many are medically released based on MST, that would be really helpful. I assume, unless you say no, that you're good to do that.Mr. Harris, I'm going to come to you first.I understand there is a service delivery branch dedicated for processing disability claims related to MST. I'm just wondering if you could tell us a little bit about how long it's been in existence. Is it a permanent or temporary unit? Are the workers permanent or temporary, and is there a ratio of that? Are the adjudicators medical professionals? It would be helpful.The last part of that question is this: How many claims are they processing on a monthly basis? If you have daily or weekly numbers, we're open to that as well. Are the number of claims increasing?Sexual assaultStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1715)[English]That sounds great. You've answered about six of the seven questions. It just shows again that women are usually very effective. When men think it's too much, we just get it done.You didn't answer if it's permanent staff. Is there now permanent staff in it?Sexual assaultStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsTrudieMacKinnonTrudieMacKinnon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1715)[English]Do you think you could get the percentage to us? Of 100% of staff, how many are permanent and how many are temporary? If you could send that to us, that would be great. I would appreciate that so much.Ms. Trudie MacKinnon: Absolutely.Ms. Rachel Blaney: Mr. Harris, I'll ask you again, and you can decide who answers.One thing I found very interesting is that I've had a couple of veterans come to me who had issues happen when they were serving in the CAF. They had stuff for their disability, for example, a wheelchair. They transferred to VAC a while ago, and if they still have the tools that they need to survive, which they received at CAF, it seems that VAC sometimes has a hard time actually servicing them.For example, we had one veteran who actually had to pay for her wheelchair repairs. VAC said that CAF had given her the wheelchair, and they knew she'd been a veteran now for several years, but they didn't cover that.I'm just wondering if that's a block that you see and what you're doing in your department to fix it.Medical discharge from armed ForcesStatus of womenVeteransTrudieMacKinnonStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1720)[English]Where would that veteran go then? It sounds like you're trying to solve the problem and it's something that, hopefully, doesn't happen frequently. Where would they go? Definitely one of the concerns was that we were not getting any guidance for how they would get those supports in place.Medical discharge from armed ForcesStatus of womenVeteransStevenHarrisEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I think you're always generous, so I can't agree with my friend Mr. Desilets on that. I have a question about the veteran and family well-being fund.I'm curious about whether we could get shared with the committee what the criteria are. How many women's groups have been funded since 2018 through this program? How many applications are denied every year? I'm also curious about whether there are particular criteria focusing specifically on women veterans—on organizations led by women veterans for women veterans. Those things would be very helpful to me. Is that something you could provide the committee with, Mr. Harris?Status of womenVeteran and Family Well-Being FundVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1740)[English]Excellent.One thing that comes up repeatedly in conversations with women veterans is the area of sexual dysfunction. There seems to be concern that there isn't enough support for women experiencing sexual dysfunction. I'm wondering whether we could get the numbers of women and men who have claims in for sexual dysfunction, to give us an understanding. I'm also curious whether there's any work being done within the department to explore how to make this a bit more acceptable for women and more inclusive, so women feel they can come forward. I'm hearing that a lot of women are being told it's not something that is taken care of. It's not something that's considered. I'm wondering whether any work is being done to educate women and do outreach to women veterans on this issue. If I could get those stats, as well, that would be helpful.HealthStatus of womenVeteransStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1130)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. Thank you to the witness for being here today. I appreciate your testimony.I'm just trying to clarify a few things. We had Ms. Thomas in the committee very recently. She said that she was not provided with the Michael Chong CSIS memo, but that her predecessor had seen it. I'm hearing from you that you haven't seen it.I'm trying to figure this out, because it feels like there's some sort of process that's missing. I'm trying to understand that. I'm wondering if you could speak to that.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooVincentRigby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Thank you for that. I appreciate that clarity.It's interesting to me that you did say in your testimony earlier that you did talk to the Prime Minister once about foreign interference, if I got that correctly.But in the list of dates of the briefings provided to PROC, there was nothing in there that mentioned that. Was this a different sort of communication process?Again, I'm just trying to clarify the information that I have before me.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeVincentRigbyVincentRigby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Thank you. That is helpful for me.You said very clearly that you have some concerns about the process and that when you were in the role you put some things together, and there are some other ideas that you have.One of the things that I think you were saying in the last questioning was about the committee of intelligence and that you were looking at what was happening internationally and that foreign aspect but also within the country.I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about what you were seeing within the domestic actions. If you can't talk specifically, I understand that. What were the processes you were looking at and how were you trying to make that information clearer so that when it was delivered to the Prime Minister it could be understood in a way that action could be taken?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeVincentRigbyVincentRigby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Thank you for that.I'm wondering in the work that you were doing over the time period that you had, if there were any discussions about how to address information that may impact members of Parliament and candidates during elections and the process that you had. What I think is most frustrating as we go through this is that members of Parliament were not notified that there were things happening about them, and now of course you know, and Ms. Thomas has talked about this, that they're going to do the absolute opposite, which is just give information as quickly as possible. I'm wondering if there was any discussion. Was that something you were looking at, and how were you looking at it?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeVincentRigbyVincentRigby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you, Chair.I'm curious about something you said at the beginning of your testimony. You talked about some needs for systemic change within the system and about how some of the processes in place were not necessarily as effective, and how you were working really hard to see what you could do to clean those up.We did have Ms. Thomas in. She talked about the process of intelligence information sharing with the government and how she had corrected that process, and how she believed there would be no further problems. Even based on the questions that I asked the last time around, one of the things we see is that when information comes sometimes it gets lost. Ms. Thomas talked about being away for a month and then not going back to that information. It seems a little concerning.I'm wondering if you could talk about whether you think the process Ms. Thomas outlined will address the issue. Is there anything else you think is important for us to address, especially when it comes to this point of privilege? To me the biggest issue here is, in this particular context, how do we make sure that MPs have the appropriate information at the appropriate time so they can respond in a way that is effective?I heard from you, I believe, and from Mr. Chong as well. Mr. Chong talked about receiving a briefing, just a general briefing on what foreign interference looks like. He felt that it was very helpful, but he knew that only a small number of the members of Parliament actually got it. There are two separate questions. With regard to the process, has it been addressed? Are there gaps that you in your role see and would want to point out and draw to the attention of the committee? How do we make sure that the information is clear so that members of Parliament, and in fact all parliamentarians, are getting information that will assist them in having a point of view with more wisdom in terms of foreign interference?Thank you. ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooVincentRigby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Thank you, Chair.Thank you to those who are testifying today. I want to start off by saying how much I appreciate all the work that you do for this place. It is incredibly difficult and challenging, and I appreciate the non-partisan people who get the work done while we do our political work, so I want to thank you all for that first.What I'm trying to wrap my head around is this. We know that foreign interference is ever-changing and it is a considerable issue, and we need to figure out the best pathway forward. We heard from Mr. Chong. He raised a powerful question of privilege, and he has suggested that maybe CSIS should tell the Speaker about any sort of threat activities and then have the Speaker inform members at will. He used the example from the U.K. Parliament to illustrate the process that is taking place in other countries. I'd like to ask all of you for your thoughts on that process. Knowing that there's something fundamentally broken in the system, we need to find a way to make sure that members of Parliament and parliamentarians are made aware of any threat that's coming toward them, and what that means for them in taking the next steps to protect themselves.Also, one of the things I've left this process with is an understanding of what's coming at us and being able to observe the world, perhaps, in a different way so that we can better see what is coming. We can reiterate that back to all the relevant departments to make sure that we're all collectively working together to make sure there is no foreign interference.I'll leave it to you, Mr. Janse, to start us off. Do you feel there's a key role in the office and the work that you do that we could be exploring? Are there other countries that are doing a good job that we should be looking at? Of course, if any of your colleagues are willing to answer that question, I would deeply appreciate it.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooEricJanse//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English] Thank you. I really appreciate that response.I am just trying to figure out, too, what department. To come back to the Sergeant-at-Arms, I understand you've signed this agreement and I understand that you're in the process of unfolding what this is going to look like in the future. One of the things we have also heard from Mr. Chong is that there was an orientation for him about what foreign interference looks like. That information was extremely helpful for him in being able to assess and see things that may have been a threat. He said that before that training he may not have noticed those particular nuances.I am wondering if there are any discussions at that level that you're working in about making sure that members of Parliament have better awareness and understanding so that we can assess what might be a threat, and alert the appropriate people. How will you be working with CSIS to perhaps implement that into the future?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation and communicationParliamentary privilegePatrickMcDonellPatrickMcDonell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Thank you so much. I think my next question would be for Mr. Bédard.I appreciate some of the questions you were answering earlier and the work you're doing around exploring what you might be able to do in terms of having top secret information. I think it was very helpful for me to hear that at this point this is not something you've done.In the capacity of the work you do, how do you assess issues of national security? If you were provided a request to do something that would have you looking at that information—and I understand your assessment level is at that space—how would you assess your ability to do that, and the impacts it might have with other Five Eyes partners, for example?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationNational securityParliamentary privilegePatrickMcDonellMichelBédard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I will go back to the law clerk. Thank you, Mr. Bédard, for your patience with me. If I understand this correctly, from what I've heard from the other testimony, you could receive the information. You feel you have the security clearance. I guess what I'm trying to get clarity on is this: How would you identify what is appropriate to redact? Have you done any research on how other countries that we receive information on do this? Is this a practice?One concern I have is that if we're doing a practice that doesn't make sense to our partners, it may limit their feelings of comfort to share information with us. That is a significant challenge around national security. When I'm making decisions, I really try, especially on these issues, to not be partisan but to be very mindful of the role that we all take to support the well-being and health of all Canadians. As we move through this process, I am just trying to understand that.If you could answer that question, it would really support me in understanding what thoughtfulness I need to take as things come before me.CensorshipChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichelBédard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]Thank you.MichelBédardBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]I have a point of order, Chair. I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Cooper.Committee businessMichaelCooperSt. Albert—EdmontonRachelBlaneyNorth Island—Powell River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1305)I just checked my emails. I have not received the motion. I'm just checking to see when that's coming. I couldn't retain everything, so it would be helpful for me, as we discuss this motion, to actually have it.Committee businessRachelBlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverMichaelCooperSt. Albert—Edmonton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1305)[English]I just received it. Thank you so much, and I apologize for disrupting the process.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1305)[English]No, I just want to be added to the list.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1310)[English]I am.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooRyanTurnbullWhitby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1310)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I thank Mr. Cooper for bringing this forward.I am going to offer an amendment to remove paragraph c. I'm not averse to having the conversation, but I'm not prepared to make that decision. I know that the people in paragraph c are not receiving any compensation. I think that's something I could explore at a later date, but today, just to get things done quickly, I think that would be the best way to move forward.Madam Chair, I am officially asking for that to amend the motion. I hope to see paragraph c removed. The rest of it I can support, just for clarity.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1905)[English] Thank you, Chair.I thank you all for being here today. I really appreciate your testimony, and I found some of the things you were talking about earlier today rather inspiring. Thank you for your service and thank you for giving us a little bit of hope within the challenging study we've been sitting through.I'm going to come to you first, Lieutenant-General Bourgon.One of the things we have heard again and again from women from their history of service is that they often felt invisible. Now, in their experience in VAC, they're feeling similarly that issue, where they're trying to prove again and again that the things that happened to them while in the services had an impact. Because it wasn't being measured very well before, it's really hard to prove it on the other side. I hear them really clearly and hear that concern and that there's something we have to do.The other thing I found really interesting about their testimony, though, is that they've talked about the opportunity for women if they're provided the proper equipment and the acknowledgement of who they are when they serve. It's this interesting opportunity that comes from some severe struggle, and I really appreciate so many women veterans coming forward and sharing that experience.I am wondering if you can talk a little bit about the role that you are playing and what you have seen in the last few years, so that women veterans who have served our country could hear this from you today. They may not be aware of those changes that are happening and what that looks like.Canadian ForcesStatus of womenVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieLiseBourgon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1905)[English]Thank you for that.My next question—and I've heard this as well and I'm trying to wrap my head around it—is that, as things change in the CAF and as there's more clarity about the impacts and what needs to change so those impacts are less disabling to women, how is that information shared with VAC?What I'm hearing again and again is that veteran women are coming forward and they're talking about the challenges they have. They're talking about how they think, based on their medical records, the impact was from their service. I hear clearly that you're working collectively to say, yes, those things do have impact, and how do we lessen the impact by changing what we're doing? How is that getting to VAC so that when they do the assessment they actually know how to support those women veterans most effectively?Canadian ForcesHealthStatus of womenVeteransLiseBourgonLiseBourgon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Thank you, Chair.Lieutenant-General Bourgon, I want to come back to you.Just to follow up on the question that I asked last time, is there a way that women veterans could offer feedback on their lessons learned to support quality assurance? I hear very clearly about the steering committee and that there's a lot of work happening. I appreciate that and will probably ask you a question about that in a moment.What are the ways—or are there ways—that women veterans can actually give feedback to the CAF on what would have been helpful for them and made their journey a lot better? I think that is such an important essence, because they have lessons for us to learn from.Equal opportunitiesMilitary recruitmentStatus of womenVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieLiseBourgon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Thank you.I have 10 seconds left, so I won't have an opportunity...but I do think it is profoundly important. When you talked about that recruitment aspect, we know that it's getting harder and harder for the CAF to recruit. We need to heal some of those wounds so that we can see that opportunity.I'm excited to see that happen.Equal opportunitiesMilitary recruitmentStatus of womenVeteransLiseBourgonBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1955)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good luck keeping this group in order. Voices: Oh, oh!Ms. Rachel Blaney: This is interesting. I will put this to whoever is the best to answer it. I will let you guys be the experts, as always.When members transition from military to civilian health care, I wonder who is in charge—if anyone is in charge—of educating the health care system receiving them on cultural and military awareness. It seems as if that's a very specific reality. I think it's in the United States where health care is seamless between the service and becoming a veteran. I am wondering whether anyone is in charge of it. Is that a gap, and is there a place that would be best served to do that role?Canadian ForcesMilitary releaseStatus of womenVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMarcBilodeau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1955)[English] Is there a feedback loop? Are veterans and women veterans reviewing this advice and then giving feedback to see if it actually is effective in its delivery?Canadian ForcesMilitary releaseStatus of womenVeteransMarcBilodeauBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2025)[English]Are you sure it's two and a half minutes? I think he got a bit more than that.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2025)[English]Okay, thank you.I just want to say that I do believe things are getting better. I represent 19 Wing, and right across the street there's the transition centre. I've done tours of both places. I do see that there is a lot of work being done, and it's important that we acknowledge that. However, I think it's also important that we acknowledge that we still have a way to go. We're working hard, but we still have a way to go.If I can come back to you, Major-General, you answered my last question, but I want to ask for a bit of clarity. Who was in charge of that training? You talked about a medical booklet. Who was in charge? Also, you said that there's a survey, but those booklets would be going to health care professionals, so how are you surveying veterans, including women, for feedback? I'm just wondering, because I'm not clear on the process. What I really want to understand is whether veterans are included in this. If they are not, I think it's important that we recognize that so that it's something we can talk about in the future.Canadian ForcesMilitary releaseStatus of womenVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMarcBilodeau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2025)[English]Okay, that's helpful. Now we know that it's just not happening, and it might be something we want to explore in the future.If I can come to you, Commodore, you didn't mention anything about transition services for MST, military sexual trauma. Are there transition services for MST?Canadian ForcesMilitary releaseStatus of womenVeteransMarcBilodeauBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1025)[English]Thank you, Chair. I thank you, Ms. Thomas, for being here with us today. I'm listening and really trying to wrap my head around this, because this is incredibly serious. The impacts are profoundly concerning. The way in which people are learning and the timeline on which they are learning are highly concerning. I think when we look at this whole process, what I'm seeing is an increase of distrust in Canadians and parliamentarians. I think, hopefully, that's something we would want to see avoided.I just have to go back to a couple of things. You're saying that the Prime Minister and you only found out about this two or three weeks ago. Then you're saying that now we are strengthening the process of intelligence receiving, reviewing and providing advice.Are you really telling me that this was completely broken, and in two or three weeks you fixed the problem? That's what it sounds like to me. I just can't put that together. Can you explain how that works?It just doesn't make sense, because if it was this simple to fix, then why on earth was it not fixed earlier? Why are we here today?If you could explain that, it would be very helpful to me.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJodyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1025)[English]I'm sorry. I have only a few more minutes.I guess that your answer is, yes, we've fixed the problem. I'm really interested in seeing how that works. I don't know if you're going to tell us as clearly as I was hoping you would.You keep saying as well that you can account...and I hear that the folks previously in this role will be here for us.My question to you, then, is this. When you arrived on the scene, did you have discussions with your predecessor? When you had those discussions, was there no moment where there were discussions about intelligence and how it might be impacting parliamentarians? There were no concerns brought forward to you. Did you just come with a clean slate, and all of a sudden these things erupted?I'm hoping you can clarify that.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeJodyThomasJodyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1025)[English]I understand that, but we're actually talking about a point of privilege, so I think it's important that we stay clear on that.Was there any passing on...? Again, it feels like this was a bit of a surprise. Emails were sent out to ministers. They didn't know how to open the emails. It's just so confusing, but the impacts are profound. It does create a sense of distrust. I think when we look at this, perception matters. We can debate a whole bunch about what this and that means, but perception matters. In our systems right now, parliamentarians are feeling concerned that they don't know. I remember asking a question several weeks ago in which I said that I could happily be walking down the street doing my job as a member of Parliament, as a candidate in an election. I could be targeted, and no one would tell me.How do you fight something that you don't know is happening to you? What I'm trying to understand is how this got left behind. How is it that all of these things have happened? They've been reported in the media. We can talk about the source of those reports and where they're coming from, but the real issue for me is why this was not caught as an issue.Why do we have to be here? How are we going to fix it moving forward but also take accountability for the history?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeJodyThomasJodyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1045)[English]Thank you, Chair. I want to go back to the discussion we had about the fact that you gave the example of being away on leave for a month and there was information and nobody was there to read it, so it was a bit of a black hole. I'm just wondering if you could explain if that's been remedied, if there's a process in place to remedy it, but also, is that not an issue of security in itself? Was that not something that was sort of concerning when you came back after being gone for a period of time, and you saw, oh, there's this stuff...? I understand what you're saying. There are big things happening all over the world, and you have to respond, and Afghanistan was hot, but you don't know what's hot in what's left that hasn't been read, so I'm just trying to understand.... Was that not something that was concerning about security? Again—ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMarie-HélèneGaudreauLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1045)[English]Well, hopefully you got most of that question, but I know that my friend did not, so I will repeat it.I'm just trying to get clarification. What we heard from your testimony is that you were on leave for a month. During that time there was information provided, and it sort of fell into a black hole. I acknowledged that when you returned there were important things happening in the world that, of course, were brought to your attention.My concern is that when things are left behind, isn't that an issue, potentially, of national security? If nobody is reading, the group isn't reading, so that you can draw attention to things, that's concerning to me.I also want to know if that has been remedied, or if you're in the process of remedying that. How are you doing that?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJodyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1045)[English]Then what I'm hearing you say to me is that things can get lost. That's what worries me. Again, I go back to that point. We're talking about a point of privilege for a member of this place who did not know the circumstances in which he was living. Really, that's how I perceive it. There are other names that are being added to this list.It wasn't pertinent for you, so where is the stopgap to make sure that nothing falls through? Again, what I'm hearing is that we have a black hole. If nobody says we must read it, then the black hole will continue, and one day, hopefully, somebody will figure it out.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeJodyThomasJodyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1120)[English]Thank you, Chair.You mentioned earlier that Mr. Wernick had suggested that the government should legislate the position, and you said that you thought that five years might be a little too long, which is fine.You also spoke about how other countries give this role a bit more authority. I think, when Mr. Wernick was talking about this, he was talking about a higher level of accountability, especially in the giving and receiving of information, which seems to have a bit of a gap within the system.If you look at what other countries are doing—and I expect that you're focusing on our Five Eyes partners—what kind of change in this role would you see making sense for us, moving forward?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationGovernment accountabilityParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJodyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1120)[English]I'm sorry, but I want to interrupt you on that. I apologize. I'm not talking about your accountability. I think what Mr. Wernick was saying was that by legislating it, there would be a formal process of accountability that would track the exchange between information given and how it's received. One of the challenges we are hearing very clearly, from your testimony today and from other people's testimony, is that sometimes things don't go where they're supposed to go, and that's causing this problem.You're also saying that you're working very diligently to fix that issue. I want to make it clear that I'm not calling you personally into question about accountability. That can be a conversation for another day. What I'm trying to get, firmly, is what we need to have within the role you now fill so that we have some accountability that we can measure. Right now, it feels like we're trying to get to a moving target, instead of having something very clear and precise, so that accountability can be there. I hope that helps you. ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationGovernment accountabilityParliamentary privilegeJodyThomasJodyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1125)[English]Thank you.You mentioned—and I just want to clarify—during your initial testimony that there will be new staff coming in for intelligence review and to provide advice. That seems to be one of the gaps. That advice has not necessarily been provided.I'm trying to understand the structure better. Is this your team? Is it expanding the people who work with you directly? How does that relationship work? Again, I'm coming back to how we measure the accountability.It is unclear, because of the way the information is being shared, where information is going, when it arrives, who sees it, and why they don't see it. I'm wondering, is this going to work, and is it working as a team, and what role do you play within that team?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationGovernment accountabilityIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeJodyThomasJodyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1125)[English]Thank you for that.One of the things we're trying to figure out.... I understand now that you're saying MPs will be briefed immediately. My question is around the threshold level. We've heard again and again that sometimes the threshold level is far too high and it doesn't really meet the needs that we have within our systems. I'm wondering, with MPs now being briefed immediately, does that mean you're changing the threshold, or is it specifically just for this? How are you going to manage educating members of Parliament and other parliamentarians about how to receive this information in a way that is helpful to them?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentariansParliamentary privilegeJodyThomasJodyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1125)[English]Thank you.JodyThomasBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English] Thank you.I have a brief comment before I ask a question. I heard what you said earlier about a public inquiry. I agree that this discussion has become far too partisan, which is part of the reason the NDP feels it's important to have a person leading this process who is selected by all parties. We need to move out of this rhetoric and really deal with the issue, but we are also at a place where Canadians' sense of trust in our systems has been profoundly impacted. That, I think, can be solved only by a public inquiry.I appreciate your sharing your opinion. I just took my opportunity to share mine.My question to you is.... Mr. Chong, when he spoke, talked about the fact that he was briefed generally quite a while back about what foreign interference looks like. He said he heard that about 40 MPs received that briefing to just alert them.... It was not on specifics around his own reality, but just in the broad strokes of what it looks like when that could be happening to you.It makes sense to me that all parliamentarians should be briefed on what that looks like, so that there is a better understanding. Again, part of what I'm hearing in a lot of the testimony is that we need to raise the literacy of parliamentarians and Canadians on how to address foreign interference and how to start to see it. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on whether that's a good thing to move forward on. We also heard testimony that more parliamentarians should be going through a process similar to what they do in NSICOP. Go through that, have clearance and have more access to information, so that we can, again, remove the partisan reality and have more parliamentarians...not understanding top secret issues necessarily, but having a better understanding of what's going on and taking that promise and oath not to share that information.When you look at this, do you not feel concerned that maybe parliamentarians themselves are not being given the right tools to address this issue and to better understand it when they are briefed?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentariansParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJodyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Thank you so much to the chair. As always, everything that I say goes through the chair.Minister, thank you so much for being with us today.I think public trust is the very essence of what we're discussing. That is why the NDP put forward a motion that said every party has to agree on the person who's leading this process that we would like to be a public inquiry. I think it's become fraught with political rhetoric. The key issue for me is that I want to have Canadians trust their institutions. If they don't trust their institutions, that becomes a very scary place to be. We're here today, specifically to talk about the question of privilege, but also to try to unpack what happened and where the gaps are. My first question is around how you received information from CSIS in that role. What is the process, and is there a problem with this process that needs to be addressed? We heard testimony, which was shared from experts who said that intelligence is going...but there's not necessarily appropriate advice. When intelligence is going over to someone, there doesn't seem to be a very good process of making sure that this intelligence was consumed, how it was consumed and what came out of that. I'm wondering if you could talk about the process part, from the history you've lived through, where we might want to see that improved and whether you felt at any time that this was a concern for you.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationIntelligenceParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBillBlairHon.Scarborough Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]This leads me to a second question.Of course, I heard what you said about wanting to call the police and hoping that it would be addressed. The concern, of course, is that we now know MPs were being targeted, and they didn't know for an extensive amount of time. It's hard to respond in any way if you don't know that you're being targeted.The other issue, which Ms. Kwan and Mr. Chong have both brought up, is that there are ethnic communities being targeted, and people have come forward to the RCMP—to the police, as you noted. When they come forward with this information, what they're finding is that actually there isn't a lot of awareness of how to respond to that. People get a file number, and then they never hear back. They feel under threat. They may have more experiences, but they stop going to get help, because that help doesn't seem to be there.I wonder if, in your previous role, there was any discussion about what we need to do in terms of building our infrastructure within Canada, so that when we call the police or the RCMP when things like this are happening, there's actually the capacity and the understanding of foreign interference in a meaningful way to respond to it. That's where I'm concerned. I appreciate what you're saying, but it seems to me that what we're hearing is that the police and the RCMP actually don't have the skills necessary to respond to that. Why would we be hearing from so many communities saying they've gone for...they have a file number, but nobody ever called them back?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegePolice servicesBillBlairHon.Scarborough SouthwestBillBlairHon.Scarborough Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you, Chair.Minister, when you were in the role of Minister of Public Safety, the government launched the Nova Scotia Mass Casualty Commission. Of course the mandate was to find out what happened on those two days.I'm just curious about the process. For this commission, did they have to deal with any secure documents or information that couldn't be made public? If so, what sorts of protections were in place so that the commission could deal with those and see those sensitive documents that couldn't be made public?ChinaClassified documentsForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInquiries and public inquiriesMass Casualty CommissionParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBillBlairHon.Scarborough Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you for that.My next question is probably my last, with the limited amount of time that I have. You spoke earlier, when we were having that discussion back and forth, about the intelligence and how it moves into evidence. I think this is something that is very interesting, because it is the part that really allows action to happen.When we look at things such as foreign interference in our systems and in our elections, where are the gaps in that, and what do we need to look at more broadly? Have any of our Five Eyes partners, for example, done any of that work that we could look at? Is it a legislative remedy, or is it something else?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBillBlairHon.Scarborough SouthwestBillBlairHon.Scarborough Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1905)[English]Thank you, Chair.Thank you very much to the witnesses here today. It's already been really interesting.I'm going to ask an open question of both of you. I think it's interesting that I heard in both of your interventions discussions about literacy, both on the public side and I would dare say on the intelligence side, but also maybe on the MP side. You talked about a national security strategy and a whole-of-society effort.Those things all correlate to me. I think the discussions have become far too partisan and are not really focusing on the core issue, which is how we are going to deal with this and how Canadians can have trust in the systems that we have in place.I guess I'm curious. How could a national security strategy help with engaging the public in a meaningful way around encouraging public literacy? Do MPs have to be part of that as well? You talked about having a cabinet committee on security, but does it make sense to have a broader component? I know that we have NSICOP, but we also heard testimony today saying that more MPs should actually be educated in this so that we can move towards a less partisan realm and address this key issue.If you could answer that big and fun question, I would really appreciate it.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooWesleyWark//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1910)[English]I think that's interesting.I have just a few seconds. I look at a place like Finland, which is doing a lot of active stuff in terms of education, from very young children all the way into universities and colleges. I am very curious about that process, because I've heard, even from one of the ministers, that it's a provincial jurisdiction. However, these are issues of national security. If we don't teach that literacy....I'll come back to that when it's my turn again. ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeThomasJuneauBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Thank you.This is so interesting.I will come back to the part I was talking about: having the general public have a level of awareness and literacy in terms of these issues. I also want to touch on the fact that I represent a rather large rural and remote riding. One of the challenges, of course, is how people get information. I find that, as local news providers are struggling for funding resources, more and more people are just going online and don't necessarily have the ability to decipher what is fact and what is not fact.What kind of commitment do we need to have in this process around educating the general public to have that ability and that literacy to take information in and process it? How does that benefit our national security as a whole?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooThomasJuneau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2010)[English]Thank you, Chair.I thank our witnesses for being here today to testify.This is a very complex issue. I appreciate both witnesses for acknowledging how complex this is, and the fact that there needs to be a lot of addressing of issues, both within this atmosphere and in the general public.Something that came up earlier in the testimony today was around building literacy for Canadians, around addressing these issues and building that literacy so that as we're going down this path of really understanding what's happening in terms of foreign interference from multiple countries, we're acknowledging that it's an ever-changing and evolving reality that we have to collectively respond to in a meaningful way.Could you both share your thoughts on the importance of building that literacy for Canadians and how that would support national security in the long term?I will start with Mr. German, and then go to Ms. McCuaig-Johnston.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooPeterGerman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2010)[English]Ms. McCuaig-Johnston, go ahead.PeterGermanMargaretMcCuaig-Johnston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2010)[English]That's really interesting. One thing that has really impacted me in doing this process, especially knowing that this is a question of privilege, is that Mr. Chong also brought up during his testimony the importance of the diaspora community and what they're facing in their everyday life, depending on their circumstances.My question is around a couple of things. One is, there's been discussion about the foreign registry, and I think we've also heard from those communities that there's concern about that being done well and not increasing discrimination against particular communities in this country. Also, there's the fact that it seems that people who come forward with concerns because they feel they're being impacted by foreign interference are not able to actually get the support and the help that they need. I'll leave that to you, Ms. McCuaig-Johnston, to talk about your understanding of that, knowing that you don't speak for all diaspora communities, but just the parts that you have been exposed to.ChinaDiasporaForeign influence transparency registryForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeMargaretMcCuaig-JohnstonMargaretMcCuaig-Johnston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2030)[English]Thank you so much, Madam Chair.I'm going to ask Mr. German a question. He spoke a lot about money laundering and moving money, and that is a particularly interesting aspect of this whole discussion. I understand that one of the challenges we have been hearing about repeatedly is that we may not have the appropriate legislation to address some of these key issues.I am just wondering, in terms of following the money trail, do we have appropriate legislation federally? Is there any need to expand that legislation, and if so, what would you recommend that look like?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationMoney launderingParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooPeterGerman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English] Thank you so much, Chair. I thank the witnesses for being here today. I'm really finding this interaction very interesting. I share your concerns about the fact that so many Canadians are losing faith in our democratic institutions. That worries me, and I think it worries all of us, hopefully, in this place.The other thing that I'm concerned about is that it seems like the debate right now is if the special rapporteur should or should not have the job. I feel like this is not what we should be focusing on. We need to be focusing on the issues and getting to them. It seems like this is a bit of a barrier to that, and that concerns me.You both talked a little bit about how information should have been given to Mr. Chong more effectively and more quickly. Of course, I know that I also have a member of my caucus who is facing the same or a similar challenge of just not having that information. Could you, from your expertise, share with us if this is a legislative gap? Is it a process gap? What is preventing information? It seems strange to me, and it sounds like our legislative rules say that this has to go to the minister, and then the minister decides. It seems to me that, if a member of Parliament, a candidate during an election, is targeted, they need to have that information. Not having that information is an issue of security. I'm just wondering—ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeSecurity intelligenceBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDanStanton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English] I'm going to let you answer, I promise, but I just want to add clarity to that. I hear what you're saying. There has to be something tangible to pass that on, but who gets to decide who passes that on? That seems to be the challenge.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeSecurity intelligenceDanStantonDanStanton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Thank you.Go ahead, Mr. Wilczynski.DanStantonArturWilczynski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English] It appears to me that there's a bit of a void.Mr. Wilczynski, I appreciated what you said about that conversation back and forth, and that it's not happening in the way that it should.Could you explain, from your perspective, who is responsible for establishing protocols around the sharing of intelligence and information from intelligence agencies to government? Is there a gap between that and how the departments and the ministers take that information?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation disseminationParliamentary privilegeSecurity intelligenceArturWilczynskiArturWilczynski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you, Chair.I'm going to come back to you, Mr. Wilczynski, about the redaction of papers. I can't tell you how many hours I've met with people to talk about the redaction of papers, wanting to make sure that whatever we request is as safe as possible.You talked a little bit about the law clerk. The way that we get papers redacted and the process that is in place, is that not sufficient? There seems to be distrust from some members of the committee. Could you share if that is something we should be concerned about?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegePrivacy and data protectionBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooArturWilczynski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English]Are you good? Do you need me to summarize?BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooArturWilczynski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English]He's got it.ArturWilczynskiArturWilczynski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English]Thank you.I only have 10 seconds left, so I'll just leave it at that.Thank you, Chair.ArturWilczynskiBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English] Thank you so much, Chair Thank you to both our witnesses for being here.Mr. Wernick, thank you for coming back so soon. It's good to see you again.This is really about addressing the point of privilege, which I think is incredibly important, and what we've heard very clearly from multiple sources is that Mr. Chong was not made aware of issues soon enough. That's an important component of this.We also know that the process to get that information to Mr. Chong seemed to get stuck somewhere in top secret email world and all of these different challenges. I know you speak a lot about legislation and those types of changes. When you look at this system that we have in place, which is currently failing us in the way that it builds a sense of distrust not only with Canadians, as you said, but potentially with our Five Eyes partners, could you talk about the work you've done? Do you have any process or any legislative ideas around how this information should get to the people who need it in a timely way, while also honouring the reality that it has to be substantive enough, before anything else, to be shared?I'll leave you to that.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeSecurity intelligenceBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelWernick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Thank you for that.I think that is pretty apparent in the information we've seen. It seems to be a bit of a human condition: that you hope that somebody else is dealing with the issue at the time.We did hear previous testimony from our last witnesses talking about the importance of the process of sending and receiving intelligence and making sure that the people sending it actually know what the people on the other side need and if it's useful to them. I think that's an interesting gap in the process. I'm wondering if you could share any thoughts about that, based on your years of service. I really do appreciate your idea of having that level of accountability.I wonder where the intersection is between those two roles.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeSecurity intelligenceMichaelWernickMichaelWernick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]In terms of having the NSIA's accountability increased, is that something we need legislation to do, or is that something that can be a decision made by the leadership right now to see it move forward?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeSecurity intelligenceMichaelWernickMichaelWernick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Wernick, I'm really fascinated by what you said, that there should be more parliamentarians going through the process of getting that security clearance and accessing information.In that process, do you perceive members of Parliament needing better training around national security and how to protect the nation's interests? I do think it's an interesting point, because it means a higher level of accountability for us as parliamentarians, those of us who know that information and how to carry it. Hopefully it would take us from a very strongly partisan reality into one that is a little more focused on the nation's good.I'm just wondering if you could talk about the training that MPs may require to do that work.ChinaEducation and trainingForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation leaksParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelWernick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]My last question for you, quickly, is this: If you have a name or two that you'd like to recommend for leading a public inquiry, we'd love it. If not, what would be the criteria that you think would be key?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInquiries and public inquiriesParliamentary privilegeMichaelWernickMichaelWernick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1410)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair.It's a bit disappointing that we're having to do this today. I'm not content with the outcome of the report that Mr. Johnston provided to us. For me, the focus has always been on how serious this is and how important it is that Canadians trust their institutions. Here we are in this position again. I am sure, like many of the members in this place.... I have many important meetings that I am planning to do with constituents right after this meeting. I have had to move everything to accommodate them, so it's disappointing that we're here. It really outlines the reality that Canadians need to see a process that is transparent and clear and that they can have trust in, and this process is certainly not feeling to be that.I have a couple of questions, Madam Chair, and then I will listen to my fellow members.The first question I have is for the chair. Do we have a date or a tentative date for Mr. Johnston to come and be with the committee? I know you were working diligently on that. I think that is an important part of this conversation. The other aspect I am curious about is this: If we don't have a date, is there any indication of when he is proposing so that we can at least have that context in the conversation?The second question I have is for the mover of the motions, and it just focuses on why we're going directly to a summons. I'm just curious whether I could have a bit of understanding. I know that I submitted a motion to have the special rapporteur come to speak to our committee. That was something I felt was really important as we address these issues of serious concern. I guess I am just trying to understand that process. Is there any indication, from either the chair or from the member who put forward this motion, that the special rapporteur is not willing to come to see us? I certainly hope that isn't the case.I'll leave that to you, Madam Chair. Then if could you just add me on to the list whenever we are next, and I'll put up my hand.ChinaCommittee witnessesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInquiries and public inquiriesJohnston, DavidMotionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1415)[English]I will leave it to you, Madam Chair.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1425)[English] I'm surprised by that. I thought there were other members before me, but I will take up this time.Thanks to the chair for outlining the committee process. I remember that as well. That's why I was just questioning the bit about the summons. I thank her for the clarity on that.I did want to point out as well one thing that is making me very concerned. I too read through his report. I have no interest in protecting him as a human being. I think that's up to Canadians. I think as politicians in this space, who represent constituents from across Canada, our job is to focus on Canadians and what they need to see to feel clarity and trust in their systems. Right now we're seeing that erode through this bit-by-bit process, where things keep coming out in the media. It's quite concerning. I did review his report, and one thing I felt very concerned about was that there was not really any significant mention of the gaps in legislation that we've heard witnesses talk about repeatedly in our study on this issue. When we talk about how this is going to be addressed in a long-term manner, I was hoping to see that. Those are some of the things I have questions about for Mr. Johnston, so that he can explain himself.I'm hoping we can do a couple of things in this committee. The first is to make sure that our goal is focusing on Canadians and taking this issue as seriously as it should be taken, recognizing the fact that the way the information is being exposed, through the media, is very frustrating. We know clearly from Mr. Chong's intervention and the work he has done that there is something fundamentally wrong with our process, because candidates and MPs can be facing significant challenges and not even be told. How do you deal with something if you don't even know the context and that it's happening? There are obviously some key things, and I hope we remember that's why we're here.Just in closing, Madam Chair, “as soon as” the 6th—I'm just trying to clarify—does not mean “on” the 6th. I'm just confirming that, at this point, “as soon as” the 6th is all we have. We don't have an actual confirmation for the 6th. I have a second question for the chair. If he is coming on the 6th, will the House have the resources to make sure we get those three hours? I think that's absolutely pivotal. I think we need to make sure that it's part of our consideration as we go through this process.Thank you, Chair.Committee witnessesForeign influenced activitiesJohnston, DavidBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1455)[English] Thank you for providing an amendment. I will always talk about how important this is to me with my constituents, even if that upsets my Liberal colleagues. I take my job really seriously. Seeing this report and what came out of it was very concerning to me. That's why I agreed that we should have this meeting. I think it's unfortunate that it has to be made political, but I guess that's your choice. I have a couple of recommendations for my friend who provided this. The first one is that I can't support two hours. I think we need three hours to get to the details of this issue. I certainly hope they will consider changing that.I'm fine with removing the summons. I don't understand the 14 days in the context I've just heard from the chair, which is that the plan is for the 6th. If I could get clarity on that, it would certainly help me decide what I'm going to do next. Amendments and subamendmentsChinaCommittee witnessesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesJohnston, DavidMotionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1500)[English]I would like clarity on why it is 14 days. When I look at the motion it says “re-invite”, and I don't understand what that means. Does that mean that we want the special rapporteur to come in on the 6th and then come again in 14 days? Maybe that would make sense. Maybe we'd like to have him for three hours and then have him again in two weeks. I'm just asking for clarity. If, as the chair has said, we seem to be having a meeting on the 6th, why are we putting in the 14 days? I'm fine with removing the summons because it makes sense if we already have a commitment from the special rapporteur. If we don't, then maybe we need to discuss that again. I'm just asking for clarity from Mr. Turnbull on this.Committee witnessesForeign influenced activitiesJohnston, DavidBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1505)[English]I haven't had my question answered from Mr. Turnbull, unless I completely missed it, and I apologize. I do think it should be three hours. I don't think it should be lowered down to two hours. Committee witnessesForeign influenced activitiesJohnston, DavidBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1505)[English]I'm fine as long as it says three hours. If everybody agrees, then that's great. Committee witnessesForeign influenced activitiesJohnston, DavidBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1520)[English] I have one question, and then I'm more than happy to vote. You talked quite at length, Chair, about the schedule that was already outlined. Would you be sharing that with the committee, so I can better understand the concern?Amendments and subamendmentsChinaCommittee witnessesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesJohnston, DavidMotionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1525)[English]Could we get that read out one more time? That would be helpful.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1550)[English]Chair, I have a point of order.I'm just letting the chair know that the interpreters have not received the information. They're doing their best to respond to this, but they have noted that they have not received it, which makes it harder for them to do their work. Just out of respect, I'm wondering if the chair could work with us to make sure the interpreters have the correct information.Thank you. GregFergusHon.Hull—AylmerBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1130)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I thank the witnesses for being here today and for their important testimony.I'm going to come to Mr. Perrault first. I'm really interested in what is happening around the work to open up the opportunity for people who face barriers in voting.I'm really interested in some of the following groups. One is indigenous voters living on reserve. We've heard from different indigenous communities that they sometimes have struggles getting polling stations on their reserves and they know that there would be a far better turnout if those were there. There are also the residents and administrators of long-term care facilities, and students who live on their college and university campuses. I think you've spoken a bit about that and it's really important to get that vote out. There are also persons with disabilities and voters living in poverty. I think I've talked in this place before about, in my first election, seeing a place in our riding that was very low income. They literally had a polling station down the hill, but they had to travel quite a great distance without any vehicles or bus system to a location where they couldn't get access to voting. Making sure that people have access to voting is really important.I'll tie into that, just because it resonates with me, the idea of the confidence and supply agreement that we have. Of course, one thing we've really been fighting for is that wherever you are in the riding, we want you to be able to access the poll. I have a large rural riding, so people travel. They're often still in the same riding, but because they're not in their polling station, they can't vote. I'm just wondering if you could talk about those two things. I think there's some interconnection in that as well.Elections CanadaMain estimates 2023-2024Voting and votersBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English] I'll ask this very quickly, because I only have a few seconds left. I know a lot of the folks who are working to run these elections are elderly. What's the strategy around addressing that issue as we see people age out of the program? How are you attracting new people?Elections CanadaMain estimates 2023-2024StéphanePerraultStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you.I don't think you got to answer my question fully about the elderly population and what the transition plan is. As we know, the population is smaller in the younger groups. How do we get a turnout for these things? There's another aspect of the question that I'm interested in. Accessibility to voting matters a lot to me. I'm curious about any plans that you have, or currently implement, to attract people who work on both the elections side and the volunteer side who speak multiple languages just to provide information for people. I think that is definitely one of the challenges for newcomers or new citizens to Canada who may have okay English or French but may really need information provided in their first language to best understand. I'm wondering if there are any recruitment strategies around that.Elections CanadaMain estimates 2023-2024Voting and votersBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair, Thank you very much to the witnesses. We're here today to talk about this really scary and very serious issue. I appreciate your taking the time.I'm going to ask a question of both of you. Both of you talked about not feeling heard or not feeling that it was taken seriously. I'm wondering if you could expand on that a small amount. The next part of that question is, once you've outlined some of the things, specifically, what are some of the things you were expecting to happen in the task force that might have been more helpful to you? How would you have liked to receive that information?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooWaliedSoliman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]So you would like something that was actually like, “We're seeing this, what do we do next, how do we respond to this and what is the best thing to do?"Mr. Soliman.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesTaushaMichaudWaliedSoliman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English] I think it's interesting what you're speaking of, because you mentioned, Mr. Soliman, in your introduction the need to have legislative tools. We know, especially with the example of Mr. Chong, that one of the challenges is legislative, that while the process in place right now allows for discussions to happen to the minister, the minister then basically gets to decide what happens after that.When it comes to election time, I'm just wondering what outcomes of legislative tools do you think would be important moving forward. The other part of the question is about after the election is over, because I really hear what you're saying that when you're in the heat of an election, it's like you you have to respond as quickly as possible and move on because you're just doing exactly what you said, getting votes, raising money, connecting with the public. What would you recommend happen after the election to have that discussion about what worked, what didn't work and how can we move forward, because I think that can potentially be something that is also a legislative tool?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesWaliedSolimanWaliedSoliman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English] I think that is an important approach to look at, especially when we recognize that the rapidly changing reality of foreign interference is moving at such a pace that having people who are in those key roles both during and between elections would really allow for a conducive moving forward with elections.Thank you.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesWaliedSolimanWaliedSoliman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Mr. Soliman, to come back to you, I appreciate that you said a couple of times that it wasn't just one country and that there was concern expressed about multiple countries. As we go forward, it is important that we recognize that this is an ever-changing, quickly changing reality, and there are multiple countries that we should be watching very carefully.I also appreciate that you talked about this not being a partisan issue, because collectively we should all focus on making sure that our systems are as robust as possible to increase the confidence of Canadians. I appreciate that.You have talked about the task force and the threshold. I heard both of you say very clearly that you went through a very robust process, so after that robust process, when you feel like you've really been checked out, you were expecting an open dialogue that would be helpful. During the election process and when you were working with the task force, was there any guidance to you on how to work with the multiple campaigns across the country and that, if there were concerns coming from those different ridings across Canada, how that would be fed to the task force? Also, on the other side, if there were a concern, did they ever talk about how you would work with that particular region in addressing it?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesSecurity and Intelligence Threats to Elections Task ForceBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooWaliedSoliman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Mr. Soliman, is there anything you'd like to add? You have about 25 seconds.TaushaMichaudWaliedSoliman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]I'm just wondering because we currently are seeing some of the realities. We're not seeing people taking part in these systems. If I think of the current leader, he's not getting the CSIS briefings. I'm just concerned that if we don't use those systems, how do we critique them in a meaningful way?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesSecurity and Intelligence Threats to Elections Task ForceWaliedSolimanWaliedSoliman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1315)[English] Thank you, Chair.I thank the member for bringing forward this motion. This is really concerning. I appreciate that in the motion he said, “the Member for Wellington—Halton Hills and other Members”. I think it's very clear that one of those other members is somebody whom I also have partnership with in our caucus.This is really serious. Trying to navigate this very complex issue, knowing that we need to have clarity and accountability but also knowing that we have to honour national security, because we don't want any of those people who have already faced challenges to be put in an uncomfortable position.... We want to make sure that as we move forward we don't threaten any of the relationships we have with other countries that we share information with. These things are very concerning to me.I also want to let the committee know that I am leaving today for a trip for the NATO Parliamentary Association. I do have a hard stop of 1:30. I will need to leave or I'll miss the plane. I'm sure I will not be in a happy reality then. I have a couple of questions for the member. I read it closely. What I think I read is that there was an understanding that every piece of information coming to us would be translated prior to it getting to the law clerk. I have had a conversation with the law clerk. I've been fairly transparent that I'm trying to understand what this motion is, making sure that we are following the very best rules and acknowledging that we do need some information to help us go through this process.I definitely heard that one of the holdups could be the translation. That concerns me because then, of course, the timelines that we're putting in this motion won't necessarily be effective, just because we don't have the resources to get that done as quickly as possible.The other question I have is this. Other committees that have addressed some fairly confidential issues have followed certain processes whereby, for example, information was shared in a room. You could go into the room. You weren't allowed to bring your phone. You would review information, which often was redacted, and then you could leave from that place.This one actually asks for—if I understand correctly—all of that information to be put online. These are issues of national security. I'm not trying to be a pain here. I am very concerned. We have a responsibility to our country. We have heard so many witnesses say repeatedly that this cannot be partisan. Those things really do concern me. I'm not taking this lightly. I am trying to understand so I can make the best decision for the security of our nation but also recognizing that MPs need to have the right to do their work. I'm also recognizing that there are many Canadians in this country who are facing challenges. When they go to police and the RCMP, they are not being heard at all. No further action is taken. It's not just at this level. It is at a broader level that we have to provide leadership.I'm hoping we can get this done sooner rather than later but I also want to say, on the record, that I need time to do my work as a parliamentarian, because I take this very seriously. I hope we can have some questions.Chair, I hope you will let us leave at the appropriate time, and we'll come back to this as soon as we possibly can.Thank you.ChinaCommittee requesting documentsForeign influenced activitiesIntimidationMotionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1900)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.As always, everything is through the chair, but first I want to thank you so much, Mr. Chong, for coming here today. I imagine it has been a very hard period of time in your life to wrestle with these realities. What you said earlier about living your life as a member of Parliament, as a human being, and just down the street there is somebody who is gathering information, to what intent you don't know.... It is very hard to fight a battle that you don't even know is happening.At any time, did CSIS advise you or your family of harm or threat that could happen?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1900)[English]That is the challenge. You were told of the general battle but not of the specific people in the battle, and so it was hard for you to address it. Since this has all come up, has there been any follow-up action around keeping you and your family safe? You talked earlier about no longer having connections with family overseas. I'm wondering whether there has been any discussion about how that could be addressed in a more helpful way, as opposed to just cutting off ties.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1900)[English] That makes a lot of sense to me, because it allows for a response and a more coordinated effort in addressing those issues.Do you have a sense of how long this has been happening, where that information was being gathered and how they were gathering that information? Did they give you any understanding of whether you were being wiretapped? How were they gathering the information?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation collectionParliamentary privilegePrivacy and data protectionMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1905)[English]I think your point is that national security shouldn't be going through the media.You talked about having the release of documents. I see how important that is, but I also see how important it is that we maintain our level of national security. When those documents are released, should it just be to the member who's impacted, or do you feel there should be another process as well?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationInformation collectionParliamentary privilegePrivacy and data protectionMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1920)[English]I need this clarified with just a yes or a no. With regard to the meetings that were offered to you, you asked for those meetings.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1920)[English]Thank you. I wanted that clearly on the record.ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1920)[English]Thank you. That's very helpful.We've heard testimony from other folks who have had challenges with authoritarian governments and states. They have talked about going to the local police or RCMP to try to say this was happening, and getting absolutely no response. There seems to be a lack of awareness or understanding at that level of how to address that issue, which I think all fits in, because you've talked about how you also shared what was happening with local RCMP. What sort of protective measures need to be put in place? As MPs, we have this extra bit of privilege, so if something gets caught, it goes into the Globe and Mail, but for so many Canadians who are not in these roles, nobody is going to report on it.What do you think we need to do around addressing this in a more meaningful way comprehensively across Canada, both on the political level and on the everyday level of people in Canada?ChinaForeign influenced activitiesFreedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestationParliamentary privilegeMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1130)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair. I like your tone today. It's great to see.Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. I have a few questions. The first one is around security concerns for members of Parliament.We know there has been a significant change since the pandemic. What I'm wondering is whether you have the capacity and resources to respond to that change. What changes are you noticing? One thing I've seen very clearly is a fairly clear protocol on how to support and protect members of Parliament and the people who work in the precinct. However, things have also changed in the constituencies. These are particular challenges. I'm wondering whether you have the resources and if there are any growing concerns in this area.House of CommonsMain estimates 2023-2024Members of ParliamentParliamentary Protective ServiceSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooPatrickMcDonell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Thank you for that.I also have some questions around cybersecurity.That's an interesting one, and I know it's ever-changing. I'm curious. We had an issue in this committee not too long ago, when we had some witnesses from Alliance Canada Hong Kong. All of a sudden, we started having a lot of challenges. There were some assumptions made that perhaps it was foreign interference. I don't expect you to be able to tell me in detail what may have happened there, but I'm wondering whether we have the resources to respond to that. What are the protocols around having international witnesses? That was part of the challenge, that we had somebody streaming in from Hong Kong. How are members alerted if a concern has come forward?e-SecurityHouse of CommonsMain estimates 2023-2024Parliamentary Protective ServicePatrickMcDonellStéphanAubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]My next question is around interpretation.Of course, one of the important things we've done in this place is expand the ability to have interpretation for some indigenous languages. I know this has been an interesting process for us to go through. However, we've also heard some concerns from some of our members who use indigenous languages to communicate: Information is being interpreted into English, and then it goes from English to French. That's definitely a challenging thing for time.One of my questions is this: How are we working to make that more effective? A second question is this: Now that we're expanding interpretation to virtual interpretation, I'm wondering whether we will eventually look at indigenous languages. I would imagine that, if we could find interpreters from across the country, they may be able to do more of that work in this place.House of CommonsIndigenous languagesMain estimates 2023-2024Parliamentary Protective ServiceSimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementStéphanAubéEricJanse//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you so much, Madam Chair.As always, everything goes through the chair.We are a couple of years now into a hybrid Parliament, and the system has been very beneficial to MPs who need to be in their ridings during sitting weeks for various reasons.I have two questions.The first one is whether there have been any reflections on the change, because now we see a lot more MPs actually physically back in Parliament. Now that we have the majority of MPs here, is there any change to the hybrid system?The second is that I know that several of the MPs of this place live in rural, remote and northern regions where Internet connectivity can be a fairly significant challenge. Has the House administration considered any effort to help them improve that connectivity, and are there any particular regions in Canada where the concern around connectivity is something we should be thinking about during this time? Broadband Internet servicesHouse of CommonsMain estimates 2023-2024Parliamentary Protective ServiceRural communitiesVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooEricJanse//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English] Thank you so much.I thank you for your testimony here today.The two reports following the 2019 and 2021 debates recommended the creation of a permanent publicly funded entity to organize the leaders debates. These reports also recommended that the commission maintain its permanent capacity in a reduced form between elections.If these recommendations were accepted, would you want to see some changes to the mandate of the commission?Government accountabilityLeaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2023-2024BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English] Based on that, what would be the necessary budget to allocate to the commission during an election period? The other question is this: What would be the annual budget to allocate to the commission between election periods?Leaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2023-2024DominicLeBlancHon.BeauséjourDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]In its May 2022 report, the commission also recommended that it should select the moderators of debates on the basis of consultations with experts. I'm wondering if you can elaborate on the criteria for selecting the experts who would be consulted if this recommendation is accepted. Can you address the considerations that might be used to guide the selection of moderators, if this recommendation is accepted?Leaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2023-2024AllenSutherlandDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English] Thank you, Chair.Before I ask questions of the minister, I want to read in a notice of motion. I will be emailing that to the clerk and we can send it around. I'll read it out, and then I'll get on to asking questions.The motion is as follows:That the committee recognize that (i) a 2014 resolution prioritized by the Liberal Party of Canada called for “an all-Party process be instituted, involving expert assistance and citizen participation, to report to Parliament within 12 months with recommendations for electoral reforms including, without limitation, a preferential ballot and/or a form of proportional representation, to represent Canadians more fairly and serve Canada better”; (ii) the 2015 Liberal election campaign included a promise to end the first-past-the-post electoral system; (iii) The 2016 Report of the Standing Committee on Electoral Reform observed that a majority of the experts who testified recommended proportional representation. The government stated it would “undertake a period of comprehensive and effective citizen engagement before proposing specific changes to the current federal voting system”; (iv) A Leger poll conducted in September 2020 showed that 76% of respondents supported a move to proportional representation and 80% supported the idea of striking a non-partisan, independent citizens’ assembly on electoral reform; (v) In 2021, the Procedure and House Affairs Committee passed a motion to undertake a study of a National Citizens’ Assembly on Electoral Reform; and, that the committee (a) urge the Government of Canada to establish a non-partisan National Citizens’ Assembly on Electoral Reform and (b) recommend to the House that it task the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs with developing guidelines for the establishment of such an assembly and report these to the House by December 15, 2023.My first question to the minister—and obviously my last, with the limited time I have—is around misinformation and the fact that Finland is actually coming out as quite a strong leader. Part of that is having extensive education in many of their programs, not only in elementary schools but all the way into college and university. It's not limited to just that classroom setting, but every classroom setting. I'm wondering if that's something you're working on with other levels of government.CurriculumDisinformationLeaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2023-2024BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (0915)[English]It's very good to be here, Chair. I want to thank the witnesses so much for their important testimony today.I'm going to come to Colonel Jardine first. It's very good to see you. In 2021, your office published an investigative report entitled “Peer Support for Veterans who have Experienced Military Sexual Trauma”. You found that there is a gap in access to peer support for veterans and MST survivors. You recommended the government provide a funded peer-support program that meets the needs of veterans who have experienced MST, and publish the GBA+ for the establishment of the program.I'm wondering if you could update the committee on the progress that has been made with regard to this recommendation.Canadian ForcesGender-based Analysis PlusHealth care systemPeer supportSexual assaultSexual harassmentJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodNishikaJardine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (0920)[English]Thank you for that.I'm going to come back to Mr. Lick. It's very interesting. You talked about how service attribution being decided through legal mechanisms incentivizes rejection and leads to members falling through the cracks. That really concerns me. When we look at the system, between the CAF and VAC, we're seeing too many people falling through the cracks.For Canada to ask people to provide service to us in that profound way and to let them fall through the cracks, I think, is a significant failure that we should all be responsible for and all take action on.In 2016, your predecessor published a report entitled “Determining Service Attribution for Medically Releasing Members”. Its recommendations were rejected by the then minister of national defence. I'm wondering if you can speak to why service attribution needs to be as close to the injury or illness as possible, and the principles behind this recommendation.Accidents at workCanadian ForcesHealth care systemMedical discharge from armed ForcesNishikaJardineGregoryLick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (0920)[English] My next question is for both of you.I know that both of your offices have called for legislation to instate independent ombuds offices that report directly to Parliament and have expanded investigative powers.When it comes to resolving the deeper issues in health services, transition and benefits, how could this legislation protect CAF members and veterans?I'll start with you, Mr. Lick.Canadian ForcesHealth care systemOmbudsmanGregoryLickGregoryLick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (0935)[English]I have another question for both of you. I'm just trying to get some clarity.Yesterday, Minister Anand announced the launch of the independent legal assistance program, offering some legal funding for survivors through the sexual misconduct support and resource centre. If survivors have a dispute around eligibility for the legal assistance fund, do we know which of your offices they would actually turn to?Canadian ForcesHealth care systemLegal aidSexual Misconduct Response CentreJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodGregoryLick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (0935)[English]Okay, thank you.My last question, very quickly, is around the harm to serving military family members. You said that it is a concern for national security. I'm wondering if you could explain what you mean by that.Canadian ForcesFamilies and childrenHealth care systemNishikaJardineGregoryLick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1025)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I want to thank all the witnesses testifying today, but a special thanks to Dr. Breeck and Senator Patterson for their service. I really profoundly appreciate it.Dr. Breeck, I'm going to come first to you. We've had CAF officials at this committee, and there was some confusion on whether MST survivors can access OSISS and funded peer-support groups. I'm just wondering if you can speak to the significance of peer-support programs and how you think the programs should be structured. Canadian ForcesHealth care systemOperational stress injuriesOperational Stress Injury Social Support ProgramSexual assaultSexual harassmentJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodKarenBreeck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1035)[English]Dr. Breeck, what work needs to be done, and what gaps are there around women's reproductive health and reproductive rights in the military?Canadian ForcesHealth care systemReproductive healthWomenJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodKarenBreeck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1910)[English]Thank you, Chair.As always, all of my questions go through the chair.I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.Mr. Salvo, I would like to come to you first.I'm very curious. You talked about the partnership between you, Microsoft and the Government of Canada, if I have that correct. I'm just wondering how that works. Could you tell us a bit about how people are educated about it?One thing that we're hearing, of course, is that people don't know where to go to find relevant information. As a member of Parliament who represents a more rural and remote riding, I see more and more across Canada that local papers are falling by the wayside and not having the resources to continue their important work to provide journalism that can be held to a certain standard. People are going more and more online, which may or may not give them the best information.I'm just wondering how we are educating people about this resource.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidSalvo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1915)[English] Thank you for that.I appreciate that you mentioned earlier some of the realities—for example, on the convoy that we had here in Ottawa. We know there was foreign money: There was Russian money sent to support that convoy. It's quite shocking when you read the information that came out of the public inquiry, when you understand how quickly money was moving in ways that we couldn't necessarily track. Of course, that means there's foreign money that's influencing us, either during the election or around an election, which is very concerning. I think you said this well: This is an issue that is rapidly changing. How things are being done is changing, so we have to have processes that are responsive to that. I'm wondering if you could talk about the influence of that kind of money. What are the ways that we can track...? What are the ways that we can look into the future and think, “Here's how we're going to monitor that so that we make sure those dollars aren't influencing Canadians”?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesDavidSalvoDavidSalvo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1935)[English]Thank you. I have no questions for Mr. Chiu, but I would just ask him not to speak for other members of Parliament, because I can verify that some of the things he's said are incorrect. Maybe don't do that for other MPs.Mr. Salvo, I would like to come back to you. In doing some research around the work that you do, I saw—hopefully I get this right—the authoritarian interference tracker, which is a really amazing tool. It gives a lot of information about interference and what kind of interference, and then there's a lot of information that explains it, so that if you were a civilian, you could look in there and understand what the type of interference was and what the implications are, and find information about how that works. I think it's really an amazing tool.Could you talk a bit about that tool and how accessible it is? Is it something that a government like Canada's could get behind with a lot more focus?The other thing that I want to note—maybe I'm just not good at using it, because I didn't spend a lot of time on it—is that there was nothing I could find that was past 2020. Is there a process that I'm missing in that system?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidSalvo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the witnesses for being here today. I really appreciate your testimony.Mr. Andrey, I am going to ask you the questions that I have today.I thought it was very interesting when I read about the survey of online harms in Canada. The information was interesting. I'm really curious, because I know that Canadians' use of social media is growing. I represent a more rural and remote riding, and one challenge for small communities across Canada is that local papers are really struggling to find ways to survive in this economy. There is not as much support for them to make sure there are actually accredited journalists doing the work and making sure the information is true and factual.I'm curious about this. You also said that Canadians are ready to see action taken on this issue. I'm curious about how people are making decisions about what a trusted source is when they go online. If we're going to combat misinformation, what kinds of thoughts do you have around what we could provide so that people know if something is a trusted source or not?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationSocial networking sitesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooSamAndrey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2020)[English] Thank you for that.You talked a lot about ethnic media, and earlier today we heard testimony about different countries resourcing media within Canada. There should be more accountability in how people are trained and what resources they're getting. I think that's an important part. I'm just wondering, when you did this research, if you did any particular research on social media that was in different languages in Canada, or if it was just on the French and English. Is that a gap? Do we need to see more resources to research that, to make sure those methods are really being held to account, so then we can support that transparency?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationSocial networking sitesSamAndreySamAndrey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2020)[English]That does help. Thank you. This is my last question. It says here that 15% of Canadians have a high degree of belief in misinformation. This really makes me think of living through the convoy and watching journalists go on live television right there and ask people to share their thoughts. People just kept yelling, “Fake news!” and wouldn't say anything. I just watched that and found it so odd. In any of the work that you've done, is there clarity about why this 15% is believing more misinformation. What can we do to remind people of the fact that Canada has some good things that we should look at? Where is that distrust, and what can we do? It was mind-boggling to me that when they had a microphone in front of their face, and they could tell everyone whatever, they couldn't think of any words to say except, “Fake news!”Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationSocial networking sitesSamAndreySamAndrey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1205)[English]Thank you, Chair.As always, all things through the chair, and I first want to start by thanking our witnesses for being here. I deeply appreciate you doing this, especially in the context in which you're doing it. I appreciate that.For my first question, I'm going to start with Ms. Wong. If Ms. Lau has anything to add, I welcome it.I really think—and I've heard this in other testimony—that one of the challenges is that it feels like the police and the RCMP are not prepared, that they don't understand how to react around this particular issue. We know that the diaspora does not always feel connected to those groups, so I'm wondering about two things: One, do you have any recommendations or thoughts about what these groups need in order to be more extensively trained and to understand these complaints as they come forward? Two, how do we build trust between those communities so that they can have faith that if they move forward...? You told your story and you disclosed something, and then you heard nothing, so the trust was be broken. I'm wondering about your thoughts on that.DiasporaFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesPolice servicesPublic trustBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooCherieWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1210)[English]Thank you.Go ahead, Ms. Lau.CherieWongAi-MenLau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1210)[English]Thank you for that.Another thing that I saw, Ms. Wong, in some of the information I read about the work you've been doing, is with regard to specific targets around rural and remote communities. Could you talk about that? I represent a more rural and remote region. It concerns me that sometimes information is not as accessible and sometimes doesn't come from trusted sources, especially as we see a lot of local papers and things like that closing down in communities. Could you talk a bit about that?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationRemote communitiesAi-MenLauCherieWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1215)[English]Thank you.My next question is around Canadian elections. I read your information as well. Right now, of course, a lot of information is given out in French and English, but that's it. How would having an expanded number of languages to reflect the diverse communities within Canada help with foreign interference and Canadian election strength?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationLanguage other than official languageCherieWongCherieWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]Thank you, Chair.Through you, I'm going to come back to Ms. Wong first, and then, Ms. Lau, please add anything. In your earlier presentation you talked about having sector-specific advice. When I listened to that, I was really thinking about how many conversations we've had at this table around action that we need to take not just during elections but also between elections. I heard you reference—and I can think of only three off the top of my head—different sectors like academia, media, business and so on. When you talk about that sector-specific advice, can you expand on what that advice would look like and how that would be provided?ChinaFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooCherieWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English] My last question is around having a registry. I've heard from a lot of communities that they're concerned about who could be put on that registry. I know there was talk about a strong appeals process.I'm wondering whether you could explain how to balance the need for accountability and the need for human rights.Federal electionsForeign influence transparency registryForeign influenced activitiesCherieWongAi-MenLau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1310)[English]Thank you, Chair.Thank you to our new witnesses.Thank you to Ms. Wong for sticking around a little longer. I really appreciate it.First of all, my question is for you, Mr. Mitrovica, and I hope I got your name somewhat right.I think that has been the challenge. I read your articles as well. Going through this process, I feel like we're looking for the bogeyman in the closet. It's like, “Here's what this means”, and I know that it may not be what it means. It's about trying to gather information in a more holistic way, take a common-sense approach and really address the key issue, which is how to make sure that Canadians have faith in their systems. What do we need to do better as a country to make sure that this is there?I read through your article, and I was very interested. You used the word “hysteria” quite a lot. I guess my question for you is around whistle-blowers. I hear what you're saying: Because there's nothing attached to this person, we accept that as factual, and it becomes concerning what that information is. Could you talk about that? Do we have enough rules in place to support whistle-blowers? In getting information, is part of the challenge that we don't have enough supports?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation leaksBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooAndrewMitrovica//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1310)[English] Thank you for that. I think it is challenging to try to navigate this in a way that goes back to protecting Canadians and making sure that they have information they require. That's, of course, why we support a public inquiry.With regard to the other part I want to talk about, you said—and we've heard this a lot—that a lot of our legislation around these issues is old, which is a big challenge for us, and that a lot of legislation around CSIS is old and needs to be reinvigorated. You spoke in your earlier testimony about information being what is gathered, not evidence. When you look at that process and at the changing reality of foreign interference, at the changing reality of misinformation, how do you see those things going together? It seems to me that misinformation is largely at the core of this, and it has been in many countries. In a convoy out here not too long ago, we had people holding up other presidents' signs. It was like, “You're in the wrong country.” We have to look at this really seriously, because it's not just one country but multiple countries that are doing things during elections and between elections, and they have a huge impact on us.I'm wondering if you could talk about all of that in terms of the role of CSIS and what needs to change to make sure that there's a more thoughtful process. Canadian Security Intelligence ServiceFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesIntelligenceAndrewMitrovicaAndrewMitrovica//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I thank all of you for being here to testify, and thank you, to those of you who served, for your service. It is deeply appreciated.I'm going to come to you, first, Dawn.May I call you Dawn?Ms. Dawn McIlmoyle: Yes.Ms. Rachel Blaney: First of all, Dawn, I would like to say that in listening to women veterans and to the people who support them through this study, what I've heard again and again is how often they feel invisible. Their reality is not reflected back to them either in the CAF or in VAC.I would like to thank you for working so hard to make yourself seen. It's a hard thing to do, and I really appreciate your doing that.One of the challenges we have heard from women again and again is the lack of communication between the CAF and VAC. One thing you talked about when you were testifying, which really impacted me, was having to open up your files again and again so you could respond to changes to guidelines and get the benefits you were entitled to. Could you talk to us a bit about what that looked like, if that's okay with you? Do you have any suggestions about how that could be a lot more effectively done in the future?BureaucracyStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaDawnMcIlmoyle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English]Thank you for that.It's hard to hear this, but I'm also relieved in a way that patterns are starting to be seen in testimony, because it's the patterns we see that we need to address in this report so that hopefully we can see meaningful change in the future.This is the last question I have for you, Dawn. You talked about how, with services, it often feels like you're going to get your insurance, and you're fighting with them to get services. I know Cathay talked to you about sanctuary trauma, but one of the things I hear you saying—and I've heard it from lots of veterans—is there isn't very good outreach when things change. Veterans are not notified about the change and the next step they need to take. Then it's on you to figure that out, but at least they've given you the change.Could you explain a bit about what you mean when you say talking to them is like talking to somebody who's giving you insurance?BureaucracyStatus of womenVeteransDawnMcIlmoyleDawnMcIlmoyle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English]Thank you.I'm going to come to you, honorary Lieutenant-Colonel Perron. Thank you for being here today.Your organization places women veterans and serving women in the military along with civilian female spouses, I think.Pepper PodRecovery and healingStatus of womenVeteransDawnMcIlmoyleSandraPerron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English]We've heard that a lot of serving women and veteran women feel very invisible because they're often compared to civilian female spouses. Their realities are very different. I'm just curious about how that works. How do you deal with them differently?Pepper PodRecovery and healingStatus of womenVeteransSandraPerronSandraPerron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.Ms. Hughes, I'll come to you. What I'm curious about is whether you have an idea of how many women veterans ask the Legion to help with VAC claims, and, when you get that information...if it's the application. Also, do you denote what is an application and what is an appeal? That's something I'm really curious about.Royal Canadian LegionStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaCarolynHughes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]That's not what I'm asking. I apologize. I didn't ask you correctly.First of all, do you know how many women veterans the Legion helps support with their applications or their appeals?Royal Canadian LegionStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsCarolynHughesCarolynHughes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]Just to make sure I get this correct, when more information became available to you, you actually went back and looked at files.Ms. Carolyn Hughes: Yes.Ms. Rachel Blaney: Did you do any outreach directly to the veterans to say, “By the way, something has changed”?Status of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsCarolynHughesCarolynHughes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]I'm wondering whether you notice that women, when their physical ailments are perhaps tied to things like mental health or PTSD, are often put in a position where they have to appeal decisions again and again. I hear that a lot.Status of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsCarolynHughesCarolynHughes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]You're seeing that a lot.Ms. Carolyn Hughes: Yes.Ms. Rachel Blaney: You also talked about sexual dysfunction. I've had a lot of women veterans say they experience it, but they don't want to talk about it here. I'm just wondering whether, from your perspective, you've seen those claims. Is there any information you could share about that?Sexual behaviourStatus of womenVeteransCarolynHughesCarolynHughes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]Thank you so much.Thank you, Chair.CarolynHughesEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Thank you.First of all, I want to come back to Dawn, because I believe you wanted to say something about wait times. Did I get that right?BacklogsStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaDawnMcIlmoyle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Thank you.I think that's interesting. I've heard a lot of testimony about the idea that issues for women often take a while to become realities. I think you gave some very good examples across the table today about why that might be. It also continues to show how important it is for us to do research on how women are impacted and what the outcomes are, because women are just a bit unique.Ms. Hughes, if I could come to you, I know you have gone through your own transition process and I know you've been providing services for a lot of veterans who are going through that process. I wonder if you have any thoughts or feedback, when it comes specifically to women veterans, on what could happen to help the transition be a bit more holistic and helpful in the future.Status of womenTransition programsVeteransWomenDawnMcIlmoyleCarolynHughes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]He has no headset on, so he can't talk until then.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]There you go. Excellent.DarrellSamsonSackville—Preston—ChezzetcookEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1915)[English]Absolutely. I'm in agreement.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1920)[English]Thank you so much, Chair, and thank you to all of our witnesses for being here.To those of you who served our country, I deeply appreciate the service that you provided then and provide today.I'm going to start with Atlas first. You decide who should answer the question, but I will be asking everyone. If you can listen to the question and decide who is the best to answer, I would really appreciate it.What we've heard repeatedly in this study from women veterans is that they feel invisible and that data isn't collected, so they don't know the trends of what's happening. They find that a lot of their health care challenges are not recognized and their employment challenges are not recognized. There doesn't seem to be a clear pattern.We also know that it's a low number we're looking at.How do we address the issue, specifically about research, when we have such a small dataset? How do we make sure that in that reality, we don't make invisible the real issues that women veterans are facing?Status of womenVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieSaraRodrigues//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Thank you.Go ahead, Dr. MacLean.SaraRodriguesMary BethMacLean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Thank you.Dr. Courchesne.Mary BethMacLeanCydCourchesne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1930)[English]Thank you.CydCourchesneBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1945)[English]Thank you. My next question goes back to Atlas and Dr. Rodrigues.There was some talk about research being done on the needs of women veterans around health care. I think that's what I heard. I want to check if that's something that can be shared with the committee.It's okay. If you don't know, I'm not going to waste time with it.Are you doing any work on the issue of care for women veterans with PTSD during pregnancy?Health care systemResearch and researchersStatus of womenVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieSaraRodrigues//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1945)[English] I'm curious about when a woman veteran has PTSD and gets pregnant. Do we have any national standards on what types of therapies or medications can be safe to use while pregnant?I'm just curious because I've heard about this so many times, and it has long-lasting impacts.Post-traumatic stress syndromeReproductive healthStatus of womenVeteransSaraRodriguesSaraRodrigues//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1945)[English]Dr. Courchesne, do you know anything?SaraRodriguesCydCourchesne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1945)[English]Thank you.Dr. Courchesne, I'm coming back to you.We know that Atlas is a VAC centre of excellence on PTSD and, if I understand correctly, a DND sexual misconduct support and resource centre. Can you explain which is the federal government subject matter on MST issues?How are messaging, research and supports for those impacted, including peer support, coordinated among CAF, DND, VAC and the VAC centres of excellence?Conduct at workSexual behaviourStatus of womenVeteransCydCourchesneBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2010)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. I'm not sure I'll support the actual trip, but I'm more than willing to have a look at what the analyst puts forward. I will vote in support and hope we can get this done quickly, so we can get back to the witnesses.Thank you.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2025)[English]Thank you, Chair.That was really interesting in terms of making sure we ask the right questions so we can get the information required to actually understand the issue and then move forward.I'm going to ask Dr. Courchesne a question. I have only two and a half minutes, so if I interrupt you, I apologize.When a new injury is approved and a benefit is attached to that injury—for example, a service-related case of female infertility—I'm wondering if you can explain how that information gets disseminated to VAC staff, case managers, adjudicators and the veteran community at large, and to health care providers. I ask because of how many women are supporting other women veterans who have a similar health issue and are not getting the support that their friends have. Now they're working together, and what they're telling me is that people don't know. I'm just wondering if you can explain that process.Reproductive healthStatus of womenVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieCydCourchesne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2025)[English]If there's a complaint or somebody feels like that has not happened, who do they complain to? Answer very quickly, please.ComplaintsStatus of womenVeteransCydCourchesneCydCourchesne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2025)[English]Okay. That's perfect.Dr. Rodrigues, I will ask my last question.In your research, I just want to clarify this. It sounds like you do sex aggregation and data collection. I want to make sure that's happening. When there are comparisons, are they being made to other women veterans, to spouses of military personnel, to civilian women or to male veterans?Information collectionResearch and researchersStatus of womenVeteransCydCourchesneBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1130)[English]Thank you so much, Madam Chair.I thank everybody who is here testifying today.My first question is for Mr. Badawey.There have already been questions asked around the Brock University campus and the fact that it's split between the two ridings. You mentioned that the commission was trying to keep the campus of Brock University together in one riding.Have you done any work with that area to find out how the students feel and what the impacts will be on them if they continue to be split? It seems like there was an interest to bring them together, and I'm wondering why that doesn't seem to be a major concern for you.8560-441-459-10 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Ontario 2022Electoral boundariesOntarioBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooVanceBadaweyNiagara Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Thank you.I now come to Mr. Fragiskatos.I'm really struggling with your intervention today. Based on the research that I did, it really sounds like, when the first Ontario proposal was released, a lot of Londoners were very unhappy about the proposed changes. There were a lot of people who came forward to advocate against the initial proposal, and it was a wide range of people, such as those from different community group sectors and from all three levels of government.I'm really struggling to completely understand. We are now hearing that, while not everyone is entirely happy with the report, the majority are actually more pleased with the current report than they were with the last one. I'm just wondering if you could explain your perspective on this, as it's going to have a big impact on those other ridings. It sounds like the other folks who are representing those ridings are not really supporting what you're bringing forward. Would you agree that the initial proposal raised more concerns with Londoners than the current proposal we are looking at now?8560-441-459-10 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Ontario 2022Electoral boundariesOntarioVanceBadaweyNiagara CentrePeterFragiskatosLondon North Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. Those are all the questions I have.PeterFragiskatosLondon North CentreBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]I have no further questions.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]I'm sure everybody can grab a snack. I'm not there to do that.I have a question. I know we sent out a letter requesting a couple of witnesses to come. It's been about a week, so I just want to check in to see if we've had a response to that.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you for that. I'm just wondering what the normal process is and how long we should wait before we take further steps. I think this study is very important, and those witnesses are required for us to do the work we need to do. I'm just looking for advice on whether the next step is to send a letter to summon them or to wait another couple of days. I don't think we need to wait a significantly long time. We have sent a couple of invitations now and a specific invitation, and it feels like we're not getting a response. That concerns me.I'd love to hear from the rest of the committee.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you for that. I guess I need one bit of clarity. Is there an opportunity for us to perhaps put half an hour into this next week when we're meeting if it can't be resolved off-line? I just think we need to get this done. I don't know whether it should be a strongly worded letter that says, “If you don't, then we're going to do this”, or we should just move forward. If I have it correctly, we've already sent two letters, one making a request and the second one making a more forceful request. Maybe it is time to just move on to the summoning portion of this discussion.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Thank you.I thank everyone testifying today.My first question is for MP Angus.Is your opposition to cutting a seat in northern Ontario about protecting your own riding?BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you for that.I think this is the important part. I have a rural riding as well, and I have quite a few hours.... I'm on an island and I represent part of the Mainland. I know there are a lot of communities in my riding accessible only by float plane or boat that do not have the services, so they have to travel a significant amount of time to get basic services.I think what you all talked about was the fact that your offices provide services to people that an urban riding would never have to provide. There is no other resource.I'm wondering whether you could talk about the importance of that, and what it means to lose a seat in this region for people trying to access those services.Madame Hughes, I'll start with you.8560-441-459-10 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Ontario 2022Electoral boundariesGovernment servicesOntarioCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCarolHughesAlgoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Does anyone else from the table want to answer the question?CarolHughesAlgoma—Manitoulin—KapuskasingTerrySheehanSault Ste. Marie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]I don't know if my connection is working well, Chair. Could you let me know if my sound is okay?BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]Okay.My last question is just to get advice from these folks about how the commission could work more inclusively with rural communities in terms of consultation.8560-441-459-10 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Ontario 2022Electoral boundariesOntarioBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English]Hello, Chair. I will not take up a lot of time today. I have only one question for Ms. Sahota.I appreciate your bringing forward the concern of the community of Springdale. I guess maybe I missed something. I do know there is an additional seat that will be added to Brampton. Are you recommending that Springdale belong to a particular riding, or are you saying it shouldn't be broken up and you're leaving it to the commission to make the decision?8560-441-459-10 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Ontario 2022Electoral boundariesOntarioBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooRubySahotaBrampton North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Thank you.That's the only question I have, Chair. I have no problems with any one of the other MPs' interventions.Thank you.RubySahotaBrampton NorthBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]I have no further questions. Thank you.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1600)[English]Thank you all so much for being here today. I appreciate your time. Of course, thank you for your service.I'm going to do my best, but if you are not the right person for me to direct the question to, I totally accept your moving me on to the correct person.I think the first person I want to ask a question to—and I hope it's the right person—is Captain Beck. I'm curious about the transition process. Our serving women, upon release, are screened for women-specific issues such as being up to date on pap tests and mammograms and HPV vaccine if that is appropriate. They are screened with respect to sexual violence, IPV, MST, urinary incontinence, their reproductive history while in the military, along with their reproductive hazardous exposures. Are those also fully documented?Medical examinationsStatus of womenTransition programsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaIainBeck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]That would be fantastic. If no one has the answer, could that be provided to the committee at a later date?Medical examinationsStatus of womenTransition programsVeteransIainBeckIainBeck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Colonel Wright, do you know the answer?IainBeckHelenWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]I want to make sure I really understand this. Is this a list that is being added to, to make sure that process is done? If so, could we actually have what that preliminary list looks like or where you're going with that? One of the concerns I have, of course, in this study is that we're hearing from women veterans that they're having to prove that the impact of their service is actually the reason for their health issue. What they're doing the vast majority of the time is fighting to get that recognized and appealing and appealing and appealing, which means they're not getting the support they need because they keep having to appeal.I just want to clarify, Colonel Wright. Can you give us information that gives us some guidance so that as a committee we understand?Human diseases and disordersStatus of womenVeteransHelenWrightHelenWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]You said there's a screening form. Can we have access to that? Would you prefer that we ask for access to that, because this study is quite long, maybe in September?Health screeningStatus of womenVeteransHelenWrightHelenWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Okay. Maybe we'll have both just so we can see the change. I think that would be excellent, so thank you for that.One of the things we've also heard—and I'm going to go to Colonel Wright on this, and advise me if I need to go somewhere else—is that often women veterans, when they leave, don't go to VAC. I'm wondering if you see a benefit to or need for a transition group to offer barrier-free mental health support—no claims, no paperwork—just for a period of time, say maybe the first two years, so that we can fill that gap and make sure that people transition smoothly. It seems as though currently there's a process in which they're getting lost and sometimes being found many years later. I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on that.Canadian Armed Forces Transition ProgramMental healthStatus of womenVeteransHelenWrightHelenWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Excellent.HelenWrightIainBeck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1610)[English]How many clinical psychologists actually work for the CAF, then?Canadian Armed ForcesPsychology and psychologistsStatus of womenVeteransIainBeckIainBeck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1610)[English]Thank you. I would appreciate that.Thank you, Mr. Chair.IainBeckEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1625)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.I'm going to come back to Colonel Wright. I think I'm going to ask that you send a response to the committee because I don't think you'll have all of this at your fingertips.Could you send the committee information on the current training and requirements that are in place to ensure that military doctors are up to date on how to take care of all common women's health issues that could take place on deployment in operational settings? For example, what training do they get on menstruation suppression, dysfunctional uterine bleeding management, sexual assault documentation and management, IUD complications, breast cyst management, menopause management and counselling around military-specific occupational and environmental reproductive hazards? Could you look into that and get back to the committee?Medical schoolsStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaHelenWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]Thank you.I think the challenge I'm having is that I hear what you're saying, but what I'm hearing from women veterans is that when they have these things happen and they go to VAC, VAC is saying that they don't have information from CAF to validate their experience. What I'm trying to figure out is, where is the breakdown in communication?My next question also goes to you. On this one, I'm asking for an actual response.I'm just curious. Data collection is something that we've heard a lot of concerns about. I'm wondering if the CAF is keeping records of infertility rates, pregnancy loss rates or any kind of anomaly rates of offspring. I'm just trying to figure that out, because it seems to me that there's not as much documentation. After 30 years, we should be able to figure out some sort of semi-balance of medical illnesses and injuries that happen to women specifically in this area. I'm just wondering if that's being tracked at all. I understand that it's hard to study—I heard Captain Beck talk about the small component of women who are serving—but we can't ignore this, because we're hearing too many stories on the other side. I'm just trying to figure out what we are tracking and how it is being useful to make sure that women get the health care they need while they're serving and then on the other side when they're veterans.Reproductive healthStatus of womenVeteransHelenWrightHelenWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]Thank you, Chair.I'm not sure whether this is for Colonel Noonan or Colonel Wright. I will let you two decide.One of the things I've heard from far too many women are that they've delayed their pregnancies until later in life or when they are released—usually very quickly after their release. What I'm concerned about is that those who have post-traumatic stress disorder are finding it challenging to get pregnant, to maintain their pregnancy, and/or get appropriate PTSD care while they're pregnant.Again, that becomes one of those gaps, where the translation between service at CAF where they received the injury, the post-traumatic stress, and then VAC seems like it's not very clear. Could you explain how CAF deals with that? Is there enough research to know what medication and treatment processes are safe to continue to treat their PTSD while also being pregnant and/or breastfeeding?Post-traumatic stress syndromeReproductive healthStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaHelenWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English]Does that mean that if a woman is receiving treatment for PTSD while still serving, if she receives medication that could have an impact on her ability to have healthy reproduction later on, is she informed of that? Again, I always think about intention and impact, and those sometimes are related but they don't flow the right way. I've heard from so many women who have not been able to have children. They planned for children and they waited. They had post-traumatic stress while they were serving. They were given medication. Now they're in the veteran component of their lives and they had no idea it would have this impact on their bodies, so they're having to deal with that.I'm sorry, I feel like I'm really pestering, but I'm trying to figure out where it is broken so that we can have recommendations in this report that help so that this doesn't happen to women anymore.Post-traumatic stress syndromeReproductive healthSamson, DarrellStatus of womenVeteransHelenWrightHelenWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Chair, I didn't want to take up any time with our witnesses today.I think the letter is pretty self-explanatory. We requested a few other names. Only one of them came today. I just wanted to check in and see if those other folks are going to be coming at a different time. I was hoping that the chair would be willing to send a letter to ask about that.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Thank you, Chair.Chair, can I be so rude?There's a quick motion. I don't think it will have any discussion. I just wanted to move it and it's around the clerk being able to put up an advertisement to get information on this study. I can read the motion.The motion is: That the clerk of the committee be authorized to place an advertisement in detailing the committee’s work and inviting briefs and requests to appear in relation to the committee’s study respecting the experience of women Veterans; and that the deadline for the submission of briefs and requests to appear be September 29, 2023.I just wanted to move that, Chair. I don't think anybody will have any problem. I just want to make sure that everyone who wants to send in a brief has the capacity to do that and we make it as easy for them as possible.I leave it to you.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]I think the clerk would probably be the best person to explain that. It's just that I've seen this not happen before and of course it makes it harder for people to know how and where to send their briefs in before the deadline. Committee businessBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1910)[English]Thank you, Chair. It's good to see you back. I want to thank all three of you for being here to testify. Thank you for your incredible service. I did a bit of research on all three of you before I came here. I just have to say that it's overwhelming to see the amazing things you've done. I want to recognize all three of you for your incredible service to our country and to humanity as a whole. Going through this study, I hear two things. One, and you've all said it today, is the word “invisible”. Women are invisible. The other thing I've heard from a lot of veterans is the lost opportunity. If our CAF, our RCMP and our VAC actually served women more meaningfully, the opportunities that would come out of that would be profound. I'm hoping we can identify how women become invisible and how to change that so we can see the opportunity increase on the other side. I'll ask all of you the first question. Going back to the word “invisible”, I heard clearly that when things are gender-neutral, we just ignore women. Women veterans again and again have told me that when they have a health issue, they're often told that it has nothing to do with their service. However, we also know that no research has been done to actually find out if it is the service. It doesn't seem to be of interest. Often they are put in a position where they have to appeal repeatedly to try to get their issue addressed. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that and on what we could do differently. Lee-Anne, if I could start with you, I would really appreciate it given your expertise in this subject. Status of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLee-AnneQuinn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1935)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I want to come back to the idea of data, because it goes back to the idea of invisibility. Again, if you don't track it, you don't know it and then it's invisible. The other part is the feedback loop, which I think is really important.I'm going to start with Senator Patterson, if that's okay. The departments are not very good at talking to each other. The communication between CAF and VAC is very poor. Trying to support veterans when they get to that stage of their career can be very hard because the data isn't smoothly passed over in such a way that they can look at it and make decisions.We need to get some ideas. How would that work and how can we encourage those two—and the RCMP as well—to work together?Data sharingStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaRebeccaPattersonHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1935)[English]I've heard a couple of times about having a women veterans advisory. I'm wondering if you have an idea of a model you think is successful or ideas of what that could look like.Advisory bodiesStatus of womenVeteransRebeccaPattersonHon.RebeccaPattersonHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English]Thank you, Chair. I thank the witnesses for being here. It's good to see you, Minister Mendicino.I have a few questions. I found it interesting, listening to your statement today. You talked about how robust the system is, yet a lot of the testimony that we've heard has told us that it is not robust, that part of the challenge, of course, is legislative, and that we need stronger, firmer legislation. That's something I'm very interested in, but I'm also interested in hearing a bit more about the goals moving forward around the foreign agent registry.I have concerns. I've heard from many people who are concerned about being targeted, and how ethnic communities could suffer as a consequence of any false accusations.My questions for you are on the foreign agent registry. What is the framework that you're looking at? How are you addressing key things, like what this means for citizens of Canada? Will citizens of Canada be put on this registry? If so, how will you deal with charter rights? If it is just non-citizens, what does that mean? We know that Canadians have various statuses in Canada, so I'm curious about those different statuses and thinking of permanent residents.How will you decide? Will it be people from particular countries that have been identified as participating in foreign interference or targeting Canada?Canadians want to understand what the structure will be and what those components will look like. I think Canadians need to know if they could potentially be on this registry, and what that would mean for them as well.Federal electionsForeign influence transparency registryForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Thank you for that. I think that has to be watched very carefully. I hope that as you're going through the process, the consultation is inclusive and informative enough to the public that people know when to respond. It is really concerning to look at that and to know there are many people from many countries who have been here, in some cases for generations, who are already feeling concerned that they may be specifically targeted.We know that disinformation is one of the biggest challenges and that information is flowing out that is not based on fact. It's concerning to Canadians, and it's scaring them sometimes. I know that Australia has its Australian National Security, where people can look up on a website what the national threat level is every day. They can report any suspicious behaviour they see, and there are the day-to-day security concerns that can be updated. People can look on that website to see if there's been misinformation come out into their country, into their community, and see what was done about it, and then they know, oh, that was absolutely misinformation.I'm just wondering whether there are any discussions happening around exploring that opportunity.DisinformationFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—LawrenceMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you, Chair.I have a couple of last questions.I know that the consultation process that's happening with the foreign agent registry ends—correct me if I'm wrong—around May 9. If that's the case, I'm wondering if you could give the committee a bit of an outline on what the next steps will be and what the timeline is.Federal electionsForeign influence transparency registryForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English] Thank you.In terms of my next question, I'm an MP who represents a more rural and remote region of Canada, and the accessibility of information can sometimes be a bit of a challenge. When it comes to misinformation, one of the things that concern me greatly is that a lot of our local newspapers are really struggling to continue to find ways to fund themselves, because the world is changing, yet they are a trusted resource for folks. I'm just wondering, in terms of addressing misinformation, what are the strategies around really meaningfully doing that in communities that may be losing their local paper? My region has not, but other regions have, and there's a standard of information there that is not necessarily the case online.There are also communities that do not have Internet accessibility. That is a challenge. Also, just for different age ranges, some folks who are elderly may not be able to get onto a computer, because that's not something they're interested in. My grandmother was absolutely convinced that she would never learn how to use a computer. When we lose those trusted resources of newspapers in local small communities, how do we assure people that they have access to information that is actually legitimate and safe for them to understand and believe?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMedia and the pressMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—LawrenceMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]Thank you so much to the chair and, of course, to our witnesses for being here today.I will start with you first, Mr. Coteau. If the City of Toronto maintains the 25 seats, the commissioners would have to adjust their final report, I understand, and cut a riding from another part of the province, if I understand correctly. I'm wondering. You're proposing this, so where do you suggest the cut be in the rest of the province?8560-441-459-10 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Ontario 2022Electoral boundariesOntarioBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelCoteauDon Valley East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]I'm sorry, Chair, if I could.... I'm just asking. I hear all the support, and my office has heard about it, so what I'm really asking about is whether, if you're proposing this, it means that the commission has to cut somewhere else. I'm just curious as to whether you have an area that you were hoping to see a riding change to in order to accommodate this.8560-441-459-10 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Ontario 2022Electoral boundariesOntarioMichaelCoteauDon Valley EastMichaelCoteauDon Valley East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English] All right, thank you. I think I have your answer. MichaelCoteauDon Valley EastMichaelCoteauDon Valley East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]Thank you so much for that.I will go to Mr. Oliphant. I am just wondering how, in your opinion, the Governor's Bridge neighbourhood is distinct from neighbourhoods in Don Valley West, like Bennington Heights and Leaside.8560-441-459-10 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Ontario 2022Electoral boundariesOntarioMichaelCoteauDon Valley EastRobertOliphantHon.Don Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]Thank you, and I hear the process change request very clearly. We've heard that from a lot of testimony, and I presume very strongly that the committee will be looking into that.I'll come to Madam Zahid and Mr. McKay. I am just a little concerned because it looks like there is no consensus between all the Scarborough MPs about the final version of the report. From what I understand, two of your colleagues from Scarborough are also Liberal, and they are in favour of the final report.I'm just wondering how you will provide guidance to the commission to make changes, when there is not really consensus between the MPs. 8560-441-459-10 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Ontario 2022Electoral boundariesOntarioRobertOliphantHon.Don Valley WestSalmaZahidScarborough Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1310)[English]I'm just going to say that I'm happy to support it.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1315)[English]I'm happy to grant unanimous consent, but it sounds like not all of us are.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1905)[English] Thank you, Chair.Thank you to the witnesses who are here with us today to talk about this issue, which is incredibly challenging. What we've heard again and again in testimony is how rapidly this changes. It's like we're trying to find ways to block misinformation, to prevent any interference, but the target is moving all the time.I thought I would ask all of you a question.I'll start with you, Ms. Grondin-Robillard, and then we'll go from there.All of you talked in some capacity about education and how to inform and keep Canadians aware of what's happening. We know that's challenging, because how people take information in is different. I represent a more rural and remote riding, so there are parts of my riding where there is no accessibility to the Internet. There are also parts of my riding where there is no media that is local that can inform you and that is a trusted source. It's an interesting dynamic.When we look at how to educate Canadians, what would be the best advice you could provide in terms of this constantly moving threat in a huge country in which we have different ways of communicating with one another and with Canadians?It's a small question.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLaurenceGrondin-Robillard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1910)[English] Thank you.Jean-NicolasBordeleauBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English] Thank you.I'll go to you first, Mr. Bordeleau. I think one of the challenges is this: How do you inform Canadians? How do you keep the information clear? How do you not disrupt national security so that we continue to get the information that we rightfully need? I hear what you're saying, that it needs to be arm's length. You mentioned in your presentation the fact that we need a legislative response to that. I don't expect you to write the legislation right now in front of us—although that would be very helpful—but what are the key things that we need to have in that legislation? I know that other countries are doing that work. What are the key things that will help Canadians have faith in the system but also protect our ability to collect information so that we can protect the dignity of our democracy?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation collectionInformation disseminationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJean-NicolasBordeleau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]I don't have a lot of time left.You talked about having, on that site, multiple people signing off on the information. We also just talked about having an independent branch that maybe gives the information.I'm a little confused about which direction would be wisest.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation collectionInformation disseminationJean-NicolasBordeleauJean-NicolasBordeleau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2010)[English] Thank you, Chair. I thank both the witnesses for being here today to participate in this study and for their interesting testimony.I'm going to start with Ms. Marineau first.One of the challenges as we address the issue of foreign interference in elections is how it's constantly changing. It's hard to figure out the best way to respond when every response has to mitigate the challenges that we're faced with.When you were testifying before us, you talked about foreign interference needing to be addressed collectively, not just by the government but by all areas that are impacted. I have a two-piece question.One is that we are hearing from multiple people that legislation is really the tool that we need to be looking at. When you look at foreign interference and disinformation, what are the holes in our legislation that we need to fill?The second part of that question is that I've also heard, and I think this is an interesting idea, that the focus is tending to be right on the election as opposed to looking at elections and then in between elections and how we address information so that we're not not addressing misinformation and then suddenly right before and during the election we're panicking about it without a real resolution.I'm just wondering if you could answer that very simple question.DisinformationFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooSophieMarineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2010)[English] It's about addressing some of these issues in between elections. The focus right now is really election-specific, but we've heard other testimony where even parties have said, if there were more check-ins during the election....I also think about just educating people because, again, for the public it must feel like there's always some information about disinformation, but it intensifies around elections. How do we build that capacity in between elections? I think that's what I'm asking. DisinformationFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesSophieMarineauSophieMarineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2010)[English]Thank you. If I can come to you, Professor Turnbull, I really appreciated what you had to say about the health of democracy. I know, when I was last in the riding, I spent about a little over an hour with a bunch of teenagers between the ages of 15 and 17, and they had really hard questions. It was really fantastic to see the engagement. I'm a big supporter of getting younger people to engage with the system, because all the evidence tells us that the sooner a person engages with the system, the more they continue to vote. If they don't engage very quickly, they don't participate. I'm just wondering if you could talk a little bit about why this is a good idea and how you think it will increase election connections.I'll leave it at that.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesYoung peopleSophieMarineauLoriTurnbull//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2030)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.Professor Turnbull, I'll come back to you so that we can follow up on the discussion of lowering the voting age to 16. It reminds me of knocking on a door and having a 17-year-old drag his mother down. She did not want to talk to me at all. He asked all the questions. She just listened in. I think they can be very engaged, so perhaps you would comment on that.Second, I feel like you were recommending an inquiry on democracy that would focus on not just foreign interference in elections but also the state of democracy. What kinds of things do you think should be studied or publicly inquired through that process?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesVoting ageBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLoriTurnbull//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2030)[English] I don't have enough time for you to answer on the public inquiry and democracy, so if you want send something, I'm sure the chair will tell you all about how to do it.Thank you.LoriTurnbullBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English]Thank you, Chair. I thank you both for being here to be witnesses for this important study. I understand that you can't talk about details, so I will do my best to ask more about internal processes so that I better understand how those things work. Both of you have done two different campaigns, so I would love to hear from both of you. When briefings come forward with any concerns about a particular candidate or campaign, what is the internal process you take to talk to your leader, talk to the candidate and to their campaign manager? I'm just trying to understand: when you have that information, what are the next steps?Electoral candidates and nominationsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJeremyBroadhurst//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Can I interrupt? I feel like I need to clarify the question.I understand what your role is, so I would assume, as a person in charge of a party, if something comes forward to you where there is concern shared about a particular candidate or their campaign, whatever that might be.... I'm wondering what your process would be in connecting during a campaign with the leader of your party and then with the candidate. I'm not asking you to be judge and jury, but it's, “Oh, this concern has come forward. How are we going to address this?” and what the process is. I'm trying to understand what the internal process is of the party.I hope that helps.Electoral candidates and nominationsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesJeremyBroadhurstJeremyBroadhurst//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]I'm sorry. It sounds like you need more clarity. I'm specifically talking about the premise of the study, which is foreign interference.Electoral candidates and nominationsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesJeremyBroadhurstJeremyBroadhurst//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]I'm sorry. I feel like I'm having a really hard time asking questions today.I specifically said in my question if you were given a briefing, so I'm assuming it would come from the appropriate place. What is your internal process? We are here, talking about what it is to be a person who puts their life out on the line to run for a party, and all of these interference realities are coming out and MPs don't always know. What I'm trying to understand is internally, if you got that information, how you talk to your leader, to your candidates and to that person's campaign manager about next steps. Obviously, you've received a briefing.Hopefully, that clarifies the question.Electoral candidates and nominationsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesAzamIshmaelAzamIshmael//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you, Chair.I'll try again and, hopefully, do a better job of asking. I think it was clear, but there you go.For my next question, we know the reality is that foreign interference in the elections period is changing very rapidly. Based on your testimony today, I hear the complexity of trying to gather information and to see a clear picture when things are not very clear. I'm curious as to what internally has changed over this period of time in terms of how you talk to your campaigns. Has anything changed about how you do things in your campaigns in acknowledging that foreign interference could have an impact and in trying to find ways to address that pre-emptively?Electoral candidates and nominationsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooAzamIshmael//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Okay.My next question is this: Who has the power to remove a candidate, and has the method of reviewing when to remove a candidate been changed or matured through this process of learning and understanding the impacts of foreign interference on elections?Electoral candidates and nominationsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesAzamIshmaelAzamIshmael//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I thank the people here testifying in this important study.I'm going to come to you, Mr. DeLorey. I think some of the information you shared today is interesting, and I'm really reflecting on some of the comments you made. This is kind of new, and we need to figure out how we're going to address this issue in a meaningful way.From my perspective it has to do a couple of things. One thing it has to do is provide some sort of connection between that information, from all the resources they get it from...to the parties. But it also has to be at least transparent enough that the public understands what the process is.Listening to the testimony today—the previous testimony and this—it seems pretty clear to me that there isn't clarity for anyone about how any of this works, and everybody's trying to figure it out. I appreciate that you talk about addressing some of those legislative gaps.I would like to go back. Perhaps you could explain for me the work that you do. Of course if there's anything from Mr. Marshall...during the previous election.... What is changing internally in how you address some of these issues or look for those issues? It sounds like what you're telling us is that it feels like you're not getting enough information to do anything. You're giving information, but not receiving much.What internally have you done as a party or in a campaign role to address some of these issues?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooFredDeLorey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]When you were in the role of campaign manager, though, were there any internal conversations about your getting any information that brought forward a concern about one of your candidates...? I heard very clearly that you didn't get that, but was there any discussion about how you would deal with that, or did you think, okay, if it happens we'll deal with it then?Electoral candidates and nominationsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesFredDeLoreyFredDeLorey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]I'm done all my questions.HamishMarshallBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Thank you.I'm going to come to Mr. Marshall this time. It was interesting to me that you talked about the information you received as being very high level, very vague. It didn't really provide any structure for you to be able to make a decision moving forward. I guess I'm just trying to understand. From your perspective, do you think any other party received anything different?Throughout this study, it seems like there's an assumption that one party received information that other parties didn't, so I'm just trying to figure out if that is something you were concerned about and if you brought forward that concern at any point.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooHamishMarshall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English] I have a last question for both of you, and I'll start with Mr. Marshall.I've heard a couple of times that intelligence does not understand how politics works. What do we need to do to educate the system, the process, to understand how it works a little more effectively? I think the answer is legislative, but I'm wondering about it. What are the things that you feel intelligence needs to understand?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesSecurity intelligenceHamishMarshallHamishMarshall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1645)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I thank all of our witnesses today. It's been interesting testimony. I thank all of you who have served our country. I deeply appreciate your service, in whatever form it took.Ms. Topping, if I can come to you first, I'm just trying to clarify the process for you. You talked about a lot of important things.I'm wondering when you became aware of the Prince's Trust. Was it prior to leaving service, or was it after service? Could you, as a female veteran, explain to us what made the process and the training you took so helpful, and in what ways were they supportive for you?Adult education and trainingEntrepreneurship and entrepreneursStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaKristinTopping//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1645)[English]I think this is an important point to pick up on. What we know is that the numbers in the CAF have not done well. We're not seeing anywhere near the goal we've set for ourselves as a country to see those numbers increase. Also, we're not quite clear, but we know that female veterans are falling off at some point. There is still not enough research about what's happening and what isn't working.I'm coming back to you, Ms. Topping. You talked about some of the things that you, as a woman, felt were unhealthy and about systemic mistreatment. It sounds as if there was a whole process there. I think we're trying to have a very honest conversation. I accept that some systems work for some people and some systems don't work for some people, and I don't think we can compare. It's very important that we listen to the people who struggle, so that we can make those processes more holistic.I'm wondering if you could talk about what didn't work and what you found in your new life, with the supports that you have, that did work, so that we can start to have that conversation about how VAC can improve when they receive female veterans and how, perhaps, the CAF can reflect on the work they're doing and how to change that.Canadian ForcesStatus of womenVeteransKristinToppingKristinTopping//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]Thank you for that.I don't have a lot of time, Ms. Saunders, so I will ask you a question and give you more time to answer.I'm really impressed with the innovation by H2H around hiring people specifically to do outreach and to work with women and LGBT communities. I'm curious to know whether there are any processes that you notice or any patterns that happen again and again with women veterans as you're trying to attract them.Skilled workers and skilled tradesStatus of womenVeteransKristinToppingCoraSaunders//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English]I, too, apologize and I want to say I will not be supporting this motion. I would be interested in entertaining it, maybe, at a later date. We are at a point where this strike has not been going on an extensive amount of time. We also know, from the union, that a lot of workers have been deemed essential workers, and we also know that the union is working very hard to connect to the minister's office to make sure that there is nobody blocking any veteran from getting services right now.I would be interested, maybe later, if there was a cause, but right now, we know that women veterans have never had a study done on them, ever, in the history of this place. I'm making room for women veterans, and I will fight for that in solidarity with the brave women who have served this country.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1915)[English]Thank you so much. I assure you, Chair, it will be at least six minutes.I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here today. This subject is incredibly close to my heart, and I'm really grateful you're all here to shed a light on this most important issue.My first question is going to be for Dr. Karen Breeck. I want to thank you so much for your service. I'm confirming that it's okay if I call you Karen when I ask you questions. Okay.Could you tell me what the women veterans research and engagement network is?Research and researchersStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaKarenBreeck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1915)[English] Thank you.It's interesting, because I've been talking to a lot of women veterans in the last several weeks, and one of the things I've heard repeatedly is that not having the proper integration occur means we're losing a huge opportunity, because women aren't feeling they can engage. If they could engage in a more meaningful way, there would be a lot more innovation, perhaps, in our military. I think an important part to talk about is the heaviness of this weight and the opportunity that there is on the other side of it. I don't have a lot of time, but I know your specialty is the field of reproductive health. One of things I've learned, just from the conversations I've had, is that there are particular ramifications for the reality of how invisible women who serve our country are in terms of their service and then later on as veterans. I'm just wondering if you could give us any examples of where this would be the case, so that we could better understand it as a committee. Status of womenVeteransKarenBreeckKarenBreeck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1945)[English]Thank you so much for your enthusiasm. I guess my next question will be going to Dr. Eichler.I was really curious about some of the things you talked about in terms of what is happening in other countries, international lessons that have been learned about how they work with and research women veterans. I'm wondering if there is anything you could direct us to that would be helpful in enabling us to get an idea of what's happening in other places and what we need to follow here in Canada.Research and researchersStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaMayaEichler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1950)[English]Sayward, perhaps I can come to you really quickly. One thing I heard in your testimony that had a big impact on me was that you transitioned from being passive to active in the engagement of women. How do you do that?Status of womenVeteransMayaEichlerSaywardMontague//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2020)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.We've heard from a couple of different folks who have testified that they want the gender-based analysis done in VAC to be transparent. I'm just wondering if you share that perspective and if you can explain why.If I could start with Dr. Eichler first, I would really appreciate it.Gender-based analysisStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaMayaEichler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2025)[English]I am going to come to you, Dr. Breeck. I understand that there was a policy that ran successfully during operation Elsie. It would be very helpful if you would share that with the committee, to explain some of the challenges women face. Status of womenVeteransMayaEichlerKarenBreeck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1100)[English]Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Everything will just be from me and not through you, which is a bit unusual for me in this space.I want to thank everybody for taking the time.This is a minor change to reflect what is, I think, a better name for the riding I represent. Right now, the North Island component of my riding is very similar to the provincial riding, which is also called “North Island”, so that part is fine. It's a good name that makes sense.On the other side of my riding, of course, is a huge chunk of the mainland. I have a neighbour here with me in committee today, and we share an area in common. That is the Powell River part of my riding—a name reflective of just one community, not the many communities that are represented. My suggestion to the commission is to change the words “Powell River” to the word “qathet”. This is a name the Tla'amin nation gave to the regional district of Powell River. They received it with much graciousness, then changed their regional name—their district—to reflect that name: qathet. If you go to that area now, you'll see that a lot of businesses and organizations have changed their name from “Powell River” to reflect the more regional approach. “qathet” means “working together”, and I respect the nation's name and the presentation of that name. I recommend that the name be “North Island—qathet” and recognize that the nations related to Tla'amin—K’ómoks, Homalco and Klahoose, which have a shared culture and language—have all agreed to this change and respect that. I have had a conversation with the Powell River mayor. He did not express any concerns at the time.I also want to make sure the committee understands that Powell River was named after Israel Wood Powell. He was the first superintendent for Indian Affairs in British Columbia and the chief architect of colonial policies, including residential schools and the banning of the potlatch. It's my understanding that he never came to the community.I hope everyone can agree. I know that is the normal practice and thank you for taking some time with me today. 8560-441-459-09 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for British Columbia 2022British ColumbiaConstituency name changeElectoral boundariesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]That's a very interesting question. Thank you for asking that. In my role on this committee, we've heard repeatedly that there are concerns that have been brought forward by indigenous communities about the fact that the process may not be as helpful to those communities. One of the things we may want to explore within this country is how those communities are engaged in a more meaningful way. It is always important for us to look at our structures, because if we talk about discrimination and about the history of colonialism in Canada, it's the structures themselves that have processes intrinsically built into them in which marginalized communities are disenfranchised. Having that meaningful discussion I think is really important, and that's why I'm very happy to bring forward this suggested name change, which I think will really reflect the riding I represent and many of the people who are in it.8560-441-459-09 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for British Columbia 2022British ColumbiaConstituency name changeElectoral boundariesIndigenous peoplesMartinChampouxDrummondMartinChampouxDrummond//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]It really depends on the riding. I have the third-largest riding in British Columbia. I represent over 20 indigenous communities. One of the reasons I was able to offer this is that the territory I represent is broadly represented just in that one area by a nation that's related to other nations that were all comfortable, and they share a language. That made that portion better.I represent a broader part of the mainland, but that part of the mainland with many other nations, which are just as important as this one, is represented by the North Island, which is the provincial name. The challenge with that of course is that there are many nations, and trying to figure out which names would be used would be hard. I think it's an important conversation to have, because it is the names of the first people of this territory, and it should be recognized in every way that we possibly can. If the members from that region come forward to me with some ideas, it would be very interesting to go through that process. I would be very excited to do that with them.8560-441-459-09 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for British Columbia 2022British ColumbiaConstituency name changeElectoral boundariesIndigenous peoplesMartinChampouxDrummondMartinChampouxDrummond//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1850)[English]Thank you very much, Chair.As always, all of my questions are through the chair.I want to thank the witness for being here today. I really appreciate some of the testimony.I think it's challenging. This is a challenging discussion. I think, at the end of the day, the focus I have is that Canadians are increasingly having a sense of distrust in our systems. That worries me. Trying to figure out how to navigate this very tenuous situation is challenging.I want to, first of all, thank the witness for his service to Canada.One of the questions I have is just what your thoughts on this are. I think process and moving forward in the future is the best way to move forward.I know that the President of the United States has the ability to declassify information if needed, such as, for example, when the government has classified information that could be shared that would clear the air and allow people to feel a little bit more assured about what's happening. That's without, of course, discussing sources or releasing information about methods of collection. I understand that there would have to be some careful thought about that.I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts about whether this is something we should be exploring in Canada. You talked a lot about looking at legislation and moving forward. I think about some of these situations. If there is information that could be released that would not risk harming anybody and that would definitely not impede our relationships with other countries around the information we gather with national security, then is there a pathway so that information can be shared at a time that would bring tensions down?I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts about that process in the U.S. and what we could have here in Canada.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelWernick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1855)[English]Thank you. That's extremely helpful.With regard to the questions my previous friend was asking you in reference to public inquiries and having, perhaps, someone outside of our country be the lead of that, I think that's an innovative and interesting idea.We've heard a lot of testimony that foreign interference is changing. There are multiple countries—you alluded to that earlier in your testimony—so I think it's unfair to focus on just one country in particular. We know that it is quickly changing and that we have to be very robust in our response and have to work closely with countries that we have partnerships with.As we look at this ever-changing face, is it something that we should be discussing—processes where we partner with other countries that we have close relationships with to oversee some of these things if it becomes a problem within our own country?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMichaelWernickMichaelWernick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1855)[English]It might be an idea for our countries to come together to talk about how we might address these issues internally because, of course, the concern that I think Canadians have is that there is a feeling of mistrust. You talked about how NSICOP is there. That is an avenue for discussion, but that information isn't public. I'm just trying to figure out how we release information that gives people enough assurance to know that there is a response without creating this sense of alienation. I think it's interesting that you talked earlier about having systems where, of course, all opposition leaders learn more so that perhaps they can provide indirect leadership in their own caucuses.Do you have any thoughts about how these systems can work together and if these processes that the Liberals keep talking about are actually transparent enough for Canadians to have assurance in the system?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesPublic trustMichaelWernickMichaelWernick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1915)[English]Thank you, Chair.I really appreciated the earlier comments about the need to protect future elections. We know that in past elections there were concerns, but we know that they didn't have an impact on the outcomes. All parties have agreed this is the case.I hear very clearly about improving our laws. You talked about the U.K., and just kind of pasting that piece of legislation and getting to work on that as quickly as possible in Canada. I don't expect you're an expert on the U.K. legislation, but are there particular parts you feel are important for us to address in your recommendation?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesLegislationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelWernick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1915)[English]I believe that's my time.MichaelWernickBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1955)[English] Thank you, Chair.Of course, everything I say goes through the chair, and I want to thank the witness for testifying here today.I'm really happy you're here, because I'm hoping you'll be able to clarify something.I've been asking about the ability of the President of the United States to declassify information as needed. When there's a situation in which classified information could be provided that would clear the air on an issue that is important to the country, they have the ability to declassify it without disclosing any sources or any methods of gathering that information.I did ask that question of Ms. Telford, and she said that she has been asking herself about that. I am paraphrasing. When I asked a similar question to Mr. Wernick, he said that it can happen. In your testimony, you gave some specific examples of how that happened.Could you outline maybe not the details but the process of how that would happen, and maybe give me a little bit of clarity about what rules we already have in Canada? Is there, in your opinion, anything we need to change or explore around this issue? I would hate to have information declassified, rightly so, but if that information was somewhat revealed, it could lessen the temperature in this country and provide Canadians with a little assurance. Because we don't have the right tools...although I'm now confused about that. Do we have the right tools, and could you enlighten us as to whether there is anything we need to add to those tools to make them stronger in the future?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDanielJean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2000)[English]Thank you. That provides a little bit of guidance for me.I heard your comments earlier on concerns that you have about a public inquiry. I personally think that it's still needed, because we're at a point now where Canadians are feeling so much concern that I don't know how else we can do this. It's too bad that we got to this point, quite frankly, but here we are. I think that a public inquiry is important.However, I also heard very clearly from Mr. Wernick that legislation is another component. It's something that could be public and shared with Canadians. His recommendation, of course, was to cut and paste what the U.K. is providing.I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on what kinds of steps we need to take in this country, especially on the specific issue that we are in today. I know you don't have any classified or very important information, because you're not doing the same work that you used to. From that perspective—when you were in these roles prior—what kinds of things do you think would be important for us to look at in terms of legislation? Do you think the U.K. is the best place to start? Are there any other countries that are doing innovative things that would be important for Canada to do to deal with this issue?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesLegislationDanielJeanDanielJean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2020)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair.I'll just comment that I agree that 1984 was a long time ago, and with the changes that we're seeing around the planet, we really need to update that piece of legislation. One of the things that I do want to come back to is the fact that what foreign interference means as it comes out is that it has a huge impact on those people who are in our country already who may have been here for generations and who come from those ethnic backgrounds. I know that there's a long history in Canada of Chinese Canadians coming forward for a very long time, speaking about concerns that they have and really advocating at all levels to draw the attention of Canada to these concerns. It concerns me greatly that a lot of these communities are facing really profound discrimination.I'm just wondering if you could speak about that reality and the work that you did do. How was that considered in terms of creating safety within our country as we're dealing with issues outside of our country?DiscriminationFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDanielJean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2020)[English]Thank you for that.I have five seconds, so I'll give that back to the table.DanielJeanBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1105)[English]Thank you so much for this, Chair. I also want to be on the record that it was disappointing to see the Liberals filibuster. However, I also recognize how important it is that we continue our work on foreign interference. At this point, if we don't ask for an extension, it means we will be undermining that study. I will be watching closely, but will support it so we can continue the important work we're doing on foreign interference in our elections.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to all of our witnesses here today.I'm just going to ask a simple question. I'll allow all of you to answer it, because it is probably the last round.What are the most concerning consequences if the current boundaries are kept in your community?I'll start with you, Minister Murray.8560-441-459-09 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for British Columbia 2022British ColumbiaElectoral boundariesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJoyceMurrayHon.Vancouver Quadra//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Mr. Davies.JoyceMurrayHon.Vancouver QuadraDonDaviesVancouver Kingsway//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English] “Give or take”. I like that.Thank you to everyone who is here testifying today.Of course, it's very lovely to see Mr. Nater in the chair and always nice to have a little change.I think this comes back to a process question. In this committee, we've heard a lot about the fact that in the initial public input process, if people are content or don't have major concerns with it, they don't show up, and when there's a dramatic change, then people are very frustrated when they don't get an opportunity to respond to it. I think it is something this committee should take into consideration. How do we make sure people's voices are heard and that the process is clear enough so that people have time to respond in a meaningful way? The other issue that has come up several times, of course, is indigenous communities being consulted in a meaningful way. I hope this committee will take a bit of time to discuss how we are engaging with the public on all the different needs they have, and how we ensure the process doesn't fall apart later on and leave this committee in a place where we're trying to navigate these systems and information, maybe without all of the relevant information.I'll move on to questions. I have no questions for Mr. Van Popta or Madam Findlay. I have no problem with the interventions you've brought forward and will be happy to support them moving forward.I have a question for Mr. Julian and Ms. Zarrillo, if there's interest in responding. What I've heard very clearly is that there are key interests of communities that have connections to services in the community, and communities are completely being removed. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I'm wondering, where did this come from? In the public hearings, were there actually people who said, “We want to take this community out of this community”? It doesn't seem to make sense. Could you provide any clarity, Ms. Zarrillo or Mr. Julian?8560-441-459-09 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for British Columbia 2022British ColumbiaElectoral boundariesJohnNaterPerth—WellingtonPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you so much.It sounds from your testimony like there were no big groups of folks proposing that this community be moved from the current riding into a different one.I'm wondering if I could ask both of you, what would be the consequences within the region you serve if these current boundaries were maintained, Mr. Julian and Ms. Zarrillo?Ms. Zarrillo, you go ahead first.8560-441-459-09 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for British Columbia 2022British ColumbiaElectoral boundariesPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyBonitaZarrilloPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1540)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Richards. It's good to see you in the chair today.I know you and I had a conversation earlier today about allowing a few extra minutes if our witnesses need it, if they're talking about sensitive situations. I just want to see what your thoughts are on that.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1615)[English]I think you said we were going to have a quick break after this, so I'm seeking clarification on that.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1645)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to thank you all so much for being here today. Thank you for your service.I feel really sad and disappointed that we still live in a country and in a world where we have to ask people to come and bleed in front of us. I want to say that part of our job is to listen, but a bigger part of our job is to believe. I want to say I believe very much what all of you testified today, and I'm very honoured that you took up that space and were here with us today to do that.What I felt was really impactful was how many times I heard the word “invisible” in the testimony today, and that we have a system that seems to continually make women's realities invisible. That impact is having a particular one in the service of our military.The first question I'm going to ask is for all of you, and I'll start first with Donna. One of the things I've heard again and again is that when you come to VAC, it's like you have to prove everything that happened to you, so that they will treat you for it on the other side, at VAC. If they don't believe you, which goes back to my original statements, then it's really hard. You're denied, and then you have to appeal and appeal. I'm wondering if you could talk about that experience, what the impact is and any recommendations you have on changing that.Health care systemService deliveryStatus of womenVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieDonnaRiguidel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1710)[English]If I could come back to you, Donna, if we had a world that was more survivor-focused, it would provide a lot more support, a lot more coming forward, and a lot more of a deterrent, so it's something for all of us to think about in our lives.You talked a lot, and a few people have mentioned this, about the need to have more trauma-informed training for the VAC people who are working so closely with veterans. I'm curious, because it makes me think about.... If you discuss your experiences with any kind of sexual assault, or harassment.... When you were in the CAF, it was never addressed. It was swept under the table, or you didn't feel safe enough to come forward. How does VAC deal with that information? Is the veteran provided any sort of supports to figure out how to come forward with that story? Is there any information? I'm curious about how that communication happens between the CAF and VAC.Conduct at workSexual behaviourStatus of womenVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieDonnaRiguidel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1710)[English]Thank you for that. I think that is a big gap.Do you want to add something, Christine? Okay, I wanted to make sure. One of the things we've noted very clearly is that the data collection by both the CAF and VAC is very poor. That lack of collecting data doesn't allow us to follow the paths of women through the system, so I'm wondering if you could speak to that. When I get more time, I'll come back to the rest of you on that question.Conduct at workInformation collectionSexual behaviourStatus of womenVeteransDonnaRiguidelDonnaRiguidel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English] Thank you, Chair. Again, as I said earlier, I'm sorry that you have to bleed so that we can actually do something with it. I'm going to come back to my very unsexy but, I think, very important issue and question around data collection. I believe that what we don't track, we don't see. Talk about making things invisible. I'm going to start with Ms. Park. I have only about two and a half minutes, and I want to get all three of you in there, so I apologize for that. Could you speak to that? Information collectionStatus of womenVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieRosemaryPark//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1230)[English]Thank you so much, Madam Chair.As always, everything I say goes through the chair.I want to thank our witness for being here for this important issue.The way I'll start is how I think I've started almost every question during this study. The fact is that this is very serious, and the most important part for me is that Canadians are losing faith in our systems. What I hope for around this table, and for all the people who are represented at this table, is that our commitment is, number one, to Canadians to make sure they have faith. What has happened around foreign interference in our elections is that we've seen Canadians lose more and more faith, and that's where I am concerned.My question for Ms. Telford is simply this. We have seen the Liberal MPs in this committee repeatedly point out that the Maher Arar public inquiry was really effective at shedding light on intelligence leaks and providing Canadians with transparency, even when the government at the time was providing misleading information regarding Mr. Arar. Given that even your former colleague Gerald Butts has called for a public inquiry, do you think one is needed?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInquiries and public inquiriesPublic trustBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]I'm sorry to interrupt. I certainly don't want to hurt the interpreters, because they are very important to us and provide the ability for us to do our work.It seems to me that you're not really interested in answering the question. What we're seeing is more and more distrust from the Canadian public. I think a public inquiry would make a difference because then people would see this come out of the partisan sphere. Right now, it's having to stay in the partisan sphere because action is not being taken.Have you ever advised the Prime Minister against launching a public inquiry, and if so, why?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInquiries and public inquiriesPublic trustKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Thank you so much, Ms. Telford.Through the chair, as always, could you just clarify whether you were informed last year about the Chinese government funding at least 11 Liberal and Conservative candidates in the 2019 federal election? Electoral candidates and nominationsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English] I'm sorry to be upsetting you with these questions, but the Prime Minister said, “Let me be clear, I do not have any information, nor have I been briefed on any federal candidates receiving any money from China.” It feels like we got a clear answer and I'm not getting that clear answer from you. I'm just trying to understand this. It doesn't seem to make sense. I am not one to bring in staff members lightly. I take the role of people who are in charge really seriously. However, every time we turn around it feels like there's another article, there's something else coming out, and this slippery slope of information coming in and out and not being clear is leading people to distrust.Can you be as clear as the Prime Minister seems to be? Canadians are not having faith in the Prime Minister or in these roles. It worries me, so can you make sense of that?Electoral candidates and nominationsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]That's my time. Thank you. KatieTelfordBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.My question, again, returns to the lack of trust we see Canadians having for our institutions. It's really been shaken by these allegations.Should the current rapporteur, David Johnston, recommend against moving forward with a public inquiry in May, do you think, Ms. Telford, that Canadians will accept that? Do you see any scenario where not moving forward with a public inquiry will help?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInquiries and public inquiriesPublic trustBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]I think you mentioned earlier in your testimony, through the chair, of course, a past example where there was a rapporteur set up and in place before an inquiry. I just want to be clear that in that case, the terms of the inquiry were the focus of the rapporteur, who looked at what those terms would be and how they would be followed.Right now, the process in Canada is that we are giving a broad brush to a rapporteur to sort of tell us what to do next. It seems like that's the take of the government, instead of saying what is going to be transparent and clear for Canadians. We know that a lot of things have been said, it's become very partisan and there's a lot of distrust in our institutions, which concerns me greatly.I understand that you were trying to say there have been rapporteurs before inquiries, but I think it's clear that we also know those rapporteurs were set up to create the spectrum of what the inquiry would look like. This is very different.I'm going to go back to the original question. Do you think Canadians will stand for it? In the sense of the role that you play with the Prime Minister, is there any concern there that the voice of Canadians is not being heard and what they need isn't being delivered?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInquiries and public inquiriesPublic trustKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1330)[English] Thank you so much, Chair.As always with everything, through the chair, I hear very clearly, Ms. Telford, that you trust in the Right Honourable David Johnston in his role as rapporteur, and that's fine. What I am saying is that I trust Canadians. I trust their need to have trust in our electoral institutions, to be able to have these serious allegations addressed in a way that honours our national security, and the need of Canadians to understand what has happened. How is Canada protecting itself? Is there any corruption that we should be concerned about? How can Canadians have faith in the election process in the future?In my opinion, those things can be addressed only through a public inquiry. I guess what I am trying to understand is why there is resistance from the Prime Minister and the PMO to giving Canadians a process that they can quantify, that they can see and that takes it out of the political sphere. You and I do definitely agree on that issue. I find it frustrating to hear from some of the Conservative members that if you don't say this, then it means big problems over here. I also don't like what I think Canadians are hearing, which is these big concerns being minimized: “Look at all the things we've created. Don't worry. There's no problem to see here.” I don't believe that Canadians agree with that. It, therefore, feels as though we're having this tug of war and what we're forgetting in that tug of war is that Canadians require accountability in order to have faith in our institutions. I ask again, why is there resistance? Why can we not move forward in this way so that Canadians have assurances that their institutions are working and responding to the changing reality we're in and so we can have faith in those systems? Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInquiries and public inquiriesPublic trustBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1400)[English] Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Everything is always through the chair, so I appreciate that.I just would like to say to Ms. Telford that we had a little bit of discussion earlier about a previous inquiry, and I've done a little bit of research on it. I would like to quote from a Toronto Star article that says, “Harper last month asked academic and lawyer David Johnston to craft the terms of reference for the inquiry and Harper says he'll take whatever advice Johnston gives.”I'm just clarifying that a bit. I'm happy to share that with you if it helps you understand the point of view I'm coming from, but I do want to go back to this issue of having a public inquiry, having a transparent process that Canadians can have faith in.I'm just curious. There were some questions earlier about what we're seeing across this country, which is an increase of anti-Asian hate. That's very concerning, because it puts people who are in this country, many Chinese people in this country who have been fighting for an extremely long time to get acknowledgement from this government about interference from China into this country, people who were willing to take that step to draw attention to that issue....If the rapporteur comes forward and recommends a public inquiry, I'm wondering if the PMO, if the Prime Minister and if Ms. Telford would admit that it was wrong to allow these issues to fester in the public mind for such a long period of time that it has created a distress that is just not necessary, and that the longer we ask Canadians to wait, the more we are actually harming other populations by not seeing that action.I'm just wondering if that would be the case and if there would be a willingness to say: “You're right. We should have just done this in the first place.”Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInquiries and public inquiriesPublic trustBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1430)[English]Thank you. Through you, Chair, [Technical difficulty—Editor] I agree that this work needs to be taken out of the partisan environment of Parliament. I [Technical difficulty—Editor] why did the PM not instruct Mr. Johnston to set the terms of a public inquiry [Technical difficulty—Editor] than to decide whether or not to even have an inquiry? Is it not true that a public injury is the best way to take this out of partisanship?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInquiries and public inquiriesPublic trustBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1430)[English]If a public inquiry had started three months ago, I don't think we'd be sitting here in this room today, but I'll leave that to you. My last question [Technical difficulty—Editor] presidents do have the ability to declassify information at will. In a [Technical difficulty—Editor] situation, where the government has classified information to clear the air, it would be helpful if it were declassified without necessarily disclosing sources and methods [Technical difficulty—Editor] that would concern national security. Does Canada have a similar process?KatieTelfordBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1430)[English]Nothing changed. BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1430)[English]Okay. I'll try. I'm hard-wired, so I don't know what could have happened.Presidents do have the ability to declassify information at will. If there were a hypothetical situation where the government had classified information, and it [Technical difficulty—Editor] would clear the air and would be helpful if it were declassified without [Technical difficulty—Editor] sources and methods. I'm just wondering if Canada has a similar process.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationSecurity intelligenceBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1900)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. I want to thank the witnesses who are here today for this study. I've been wanting this study to happen for a long time, and I'm very excited and very thrilled that with the support of this committee, we got it with as many meetings as we have. I know how important this issue is.My first question will come to you, Colonel Jardine. First of all, I want to say how much I appreciate the strength with which you have dealt with the issue in front of us today. I also want to thank you so much for the work you've done on the Merlo Davidson case. A lot of these women have reached out to my office and shared stories that I'm still finding space to hold in my spirit. I want to thank you for doing that work.It's so important to validate those voices and make sure they are heard in the way you have heard them, and I'm very pleased to hear that VAC sounds like it will be honouring that. I'm looking forward to when that happens.One of the reasons I wanted to study women veterans is that I am concerned about the fact that the attraction strategy on the military side continues to not be very strong. I fully believe there's a cycle here that we need to look at in terms of how women are doing in the military and how they're doing after their service when they're veterans.You spoke in your testimony today about how the effects of military service on women differ from the effects of service on men. I wonder if you could talk about the work you've done and the service you have provided. Where do you see some of those differences, and what things should we be looking for as we do this study?Research and researchersStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNishikaJardine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1905)[English]That's quite devastating.I really appreciated the opening statement you brought forward because the fact is that there are different realities. For example, I've heard stories from veterans who talk about having PTSD and taking medication that has prevented their ability later on to have strong reproductive health. I've also heard from women veterans who have come forward and said that often when they're dealing with VAC, they hear things like, “Prove that this health issue you have now is related to your service.” I think one of the biggest challenges is that we don't see recognition from the different bodies.I'm just curious if you could comment on this. There doesn't seem to be a process when you come into the system as a woman whereby your body is checked out so you have a frame of reference when you get to the other side. It feels like there's a really big block, from what I've heard from women veterans. I wonder if you have any thoughts on that.Application processStatus of womenVeteransVeterans benefitsLauraKellyNishikaJardine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1905)[English]This is a really hard, challenging study. Part of it, which you have mentioned, is that there isn't a lot of research or data collected, so it's really hard for us to know. I've done a bit of a review on what's been done by our neighbours to the south. There's a lot more information there. We could learn from them for sure. When we look at the relationship, the intersection, between VAC and DND, do you have any ideas about what needs to change so that these departments work better to serve women service members and women veterans?Department of National DefenceDepartment of Veterans AffairsInterdepartmental relationsStatus of womenVeteransNishikaJardineNishikaJardine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1905)[English]It was on the intersection between the two. As I said earlier, one thing that concerns me is that our attraction strategy for women on the military side is not going up. We keep setting goals, but we're not getting anywhere near them. Then we hear that women aren't doing well on the other side. Where is the intersection?Status of womenVeteransNishikaJardineEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1915)[English]Chair, I just want you to know that the screen in the front is not working. It's flashing on and off. It was fine before. EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1920)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I'd like to ask a couple of questions.First, one thing that was said in the report you sent to us today is that your office is consistently recommending that VAC publish the gender-based analysis plus. I would like to hear what that recommendation is about and what your concerns are. It would be helpful. I think it should be public as well.Second, you talked about the satisfaction surveys lumping together spouses, widows and women veterans. I'm wondering if you could comment on what concerns you about that process at VAC.Department of Veterans AffairsGender-based Analysis PlusInformation collectionStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNishikaJardine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]I think it's harder to measure the challenges if you don't hear the distinct voices.Thank you.Status of womenVeteransNishikaJardineEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2000)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I thank the witnesses.My first question is whether there's a VAC women's health research strategy. If so, is it publicly available? How was it developed? Who is involved? Does it exist?HealthResearch and researchersStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNathanSvenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2000)[English]Okay. I'm sorry to interrupt. I really apologize.Is there a strategy? I hear that you're linking with other people and other departments, but is there a specific strategy you can point to in which you can have some measurable outcomes?HealthResearch and researchersStatus of womenVeteransNathanSvensonNathanSvenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2000)[English]Is it public? Is it something the committee could look at, just to see what the plan is?HealthResearch and researchersStatus of womenVeteransNathanSvensonNathanSvenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2000)[English]Thank you. That would be helpful.I know the first women veterans' forum was held in P.E.I. in 2019, which was about four years ago. “Research” was mentioned in the summary, I think, 24 times. Obviously it's an essential theme and a priority area. I'm wondering if you could talk about what has been done on health issue-specific research for women veterans since then. There are a couple of things I'm particularly very interested in. We know that women veterans who served in the Middle East and experienced burn pit exposures are now experiencing higher rates of breast cancer. Do we know if those rates of breast cancer are different among women who did not serve in the Middle East and experience that combat exposure? Around that, do we know if veteran women see higher rates of breast cancer compared to civilian women? The other part is uterine prolapse or stress incontinence related to military duties. These are the issues I hear about the most. Has any research been done on this? Since this happened in 2019, what is the direction of the department in researching these important issues specifically for women veterans?HealthResearch and researchersStatus of womenVeteransNathanSvensonNathanSvenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2005)[English]Okay. I'm feeling a little frustrated—not at you, but just at the fact that we obviously do not have a lot of data about women veterans. This is very concerning to me. My next question is, how does this department, VAC, meaningfully include the voices of women veterans in its research? Would a woman veteran advisory committee be helpful for research prioritization and development? I'm concerned that the focus isn't there. Would it be wise to make women veterans part of that advisory committee for research?Advisory bodiesDepartment of Veterans AffairsResearch and researchersStatus of womenVeteransNathanSvensonNathanSvenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]Let's proceed to the end.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]I have six minutes. I want my six minutes.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieDarrellSamsonSackville—Preston—Chezzetcook//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2020)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.To the witnesses, how does VAC communicate its veteran health-related research findings back to women veterans and to the civilian health care providers? I know that about 80% of veterans are not VAC clients. I'm just curious to know how you get this information out and how you get it out to the health care providers who work with them.Accidents at workOperational stress injuriesStatus of womenVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNathanSvenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2020)[English]Okay. I think I got it. I have a very short time.I'm wondering about how the support from the minister and other senior officers works with the department and whether there's ever an opportunity when you're asking for more resources and you don't get them. I'm wondering how those two things work together—the senior officials and the minister's office, and the work you do in research.Research and researchersStatus of womenVeteransNathanSvensonNathanSvenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1220)[English] Thank you to everybody for being here.All of my questions have already been answered. Thank you, everyone, for asking them for me, so you have all my time.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1220)[English]Yes, of course.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJean-DenisGaronMirabel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English] I have no more questions.Thank you. BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. I just want to clarify. I did do a notice of motion about having the special rapporteur come in to talk to us about the work he is doing. It sounds like, from the last conversation in committee, people are open to that, so I was just going to check if we could move forward, add him to the list and move on.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English] Madam Chair, I don't have any questions. I feel that the presentation clarified the list that we need to get to.I'm sorry, Luc. I have no hard questions for you—maybe later.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1305)[English] I have no questions. BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1130)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank all the members who are here today and behaving so nicely.I have one question, so I will be able to give you back some time. Hopefully, that will be helpful later on. on.My one question is for Madame Gill. It seemed to me, in the letter I read from the nation, that they were hoping that the indigenous name would be first. I don't know whether you answered this already, but I'm wondering why it is not first. As the first people...it just makes sense.If you could help me understand that, I would appreciate it.8560-441-459-07 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Quebec 2022Constituency name changeElectoral boundariesProvince of QuebecBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMarilèneGillManicouagan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English] I have no further questions.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]I always feel as if I'm wrestling with the poor interpreters about who is supposed to push the buttons. I apologize if I disrupt their work. I've had conversations with the Conservatives on this motion, and I am going to confess that I have a bit of curiosity about, and openness to, discussing having three-hour meetings twice a week, as opposed to two. I think the hours really matter. I guess, for this particular motion—and to be respectful of the fact that we have many committees trying very hard, sometimes, to get extra time, and that can be a challenge—it might be easier for this place to accommodate two hours, as opposed to three hours. I offer that as what I call a “friendly amendment”. I understand that's not the official title or language, but I hope Mr. Cooper will see that. I speak as a whip, a little. I understand the hard decisions whips have to make. I think two hours would allow us to move forward in a way that is more harmonious with the system we have here, in Ottawa. I'd love to hear feedback on that. I also appreciate Mr. Fergus's comments about having the special rapporteur come in. I think that is essential for the study, and it will help us understand the process that's continuing on, so we can talk about that later. First, I'll leave it to the chair and my friendly amendment. I'm moving this as an amendment to make sure that's clear.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]I'm offering it as a friendly amendment, but I will move it, if it is not accepted. Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English] Thank you for that, Madam Chair.I know we're going to have to get to our next panel fairly soon, here, and I appreciate that we had extra time to talk about this, and will have...at the end. You know, I said it, and I'll say it again: I'm willing to explore the idea of adding an extra hour per committee. I'm willing to explore that, because one of the things that are very important to me is continuing to do what we can to build trust. There's definitely a fear around this table about losing, one way or the other. What would help me understand and feel more faith in the process...because I agree with Mr. Cooper, quite frankly. It's disheartening, to me, to open up...online and see so many newspaper articles exposing yet another thing, and to feel like the transparency is not there. I understand that, again, we can go into the whole, complex conversation about national security, but it feels.... It's hard. Then, I have to go back and talk to my constituents. I feel a real obligation to get some of this work done. Everybody knows how I feel about a public inquiry, so my recommendation is that we need the subcommittee meeting, where we can look at the options and make a plan. If there's a plan all of us can get behind—or the majority of us can get behind—that allows us to continue to look at foreign interference, there will be an ability for us to test the waters, then decide whether we have faith, after that.I think, to me.... Again, I'm a planner by nature. Anyone who knows me will tell you that. I appreciate the hard work that went into this plan, but there are some gaps in this plan that should be addressed. If we could build something we can agree on, maybe we could then, at least, take a period of time to check it out and see whether it works with that extra hour. I recognize.... I get asked, all the time, about committees extending time. It's not very easy. There are a lot of frustrations, and we have to honour not our political world but the people who actually do the work to make those committees happen. I want us all to be very careful, because we're asking people to do more work, and there are challenges to that, which we're still working through, on that level.I'll leave it at that, Madam Chair.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English] Thank you, Chair.Thank you, everyone, for being here to talk about these important issues.Mr. Boulerice, if I could start with you first, as this is a surprise to all of us, could you explain how the redistribution impacts community representation in the ridings in question? You mentioned that there were discrepancies. I'm just wondering if you could explain that a bit more.8560-441-459-07 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Quebec 2022Electoral boundariesProvince of QuebecBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooAlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-Patrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English] I guess what I'm trying to get clarity on is this: It sounds as if you're just asking for the status quo. Is that what you're asking? Can you explain why you think that's the best way to move forward?8560-441-459-07 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Quebec 2022Electoral boundariesProvince of QuebecAlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieAlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-Patrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Thank you for that.I'll continue on to Ms. Dhillon, unless there's anything Mr. Boulerice would like to add, of course.Can you talk about whether you feel the proposed changes to the boundaries or riding names on the Island of Montreal are confusing for citizens and voters? Perhaps I'll ask that of all of you, as I have two and a half minutes left.8560-441-459-07 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Quebec 2022Constituency name changeElectoral boundariesProvince of QuebecAlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieAnjuDhillonDorval—Lachine—LaSalle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English] Wow. This is very exciting. Everybody's working together to get it done.I'll ask Minister Lametti and Minister Miller the same question again. If you need me to repeat it, I will repeat it.Do you feel the proposed changes to the boundaries of the riding names on the Island of Montreal are confusing to citizens and voters?8560-441-459-07 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Quebec 2022Constituency name changeElectoral boundariesProvince of QuebecBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidLamettiHon.LaSalle—Émard—Verdun//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Excellent. I'm done. Thank you.MarcMillerHon.Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-SoeursBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]I'm torn by this. I think, again, I will talk about the fact that we would need to put together a schedule that makes sense. We have to ask questions like, if we extend by an hour twice a week, do we want committee meetings to be focused for the three hours on one subject? Are we okay with mixing those? The committee needs to have a bit more say on that for me to be open to this discussion.The other part that would be helpful for me is to understand from the clerk what is easier. Is it easier for us to extend twice a week by an hour? Is it easier to get resources? Will the resources be more reliable?I heard what Mr. Cooper said, and I understand quite clearly what he's saying. I just want to have a better awareness. Is it easier to extend by an hour, or is it the same amount of complexity to have an extra meeting that's two hours long? We're making some assumptions here, and I want to know clearly if one way is easier.I have to be honest. In my life, for scheduling, an extra hour twice a week would be easier for me, personally, to put in my schedule. However, I think that we have to have a discussion about how we would schedule it and what would work. If we were going to move in that direction, what would make it feel more accessible or friendly to members of the opposition?Those are my thoughts.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]I would prefer that it not be mixed. I think it's a lot easier if we have the time exclusively for one subject. But I also recognize that if we have a witness who can only make it on this, I would prioritize the issue over the discrepancy of whether or not to have three hours fulsomely on one subject or another. I hope that makes sense. I do think I would like the clarity of knowing that we are there to work on just that issue. Again, speaking as one member of one party in opposition, it comes back to this issue that has been brought up that I think the opposition feels: We don't want to feel like we're being tossed around. We want to know that there's accountability. We don't want to see this study on foreign interference pushed to the back when it's something that is incredibly important. There needs to be a little bit of support for us—for me, anyway—to have faith that this will be the case. Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1305)[English]This is an interesting conversation.The first thing I'll say is.... Again, I did ask this, and maybe we can't get it now, but I need clarity on it: Is it easier to add an hour, or is it the same difficulty? I'm just trying to understand that. That would be helpful for me in my decision-making process.The other part that would be helpful for me to have clarity on is this: If we do this motion, accept the amendment, and have a vote and the amendment is selected for the extra hour, then that means we have an extra hour. It's just like if we voted to have an extra meeting; we would have an extra meeting. There seems to be.... This isn't just a gentle recommendation. This would be a motion from the committee to add an hour to each meeting in a week, resulting in two extra hours of committee for PROC.Those things would help me.Thank you.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1315)[English]I wanted to add that I hope one of the meetings we have soon is set aside for a bit more planning. Now that we know there are going to be three-hour-long meetings, it would behoove us.... Again, what you've given us today as a draft is a good start, but I think it would be helpful for us to take an hour of one of those days to sit and do that work.Thank you.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1145)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. I thank all of you for being here today to talk about this really important issue.Before I ask questions, and I will get to them, I want to read a notice of motion for the committee. I'm hoping to read it in, and we can have a chat about it later on, because I really want to get into the questions. I just wanted to let the committee know as soon as possible. I've made sure, of course, that our clerk has a copy. They can be handed out for you guys to reflect on.My motion is simply that the committee, as part of its study on foreign election interference, invite the independent special rapporteur on foreign interference, David Johnston, to appear before the committee no later than the week of April 24.I'll leave it at that. I'm happy to have conversations later on.If I can, I'll start with you first, Mr. Chahal. It seems to me that your suggested change would give the proposed Calgary McKnight riding an inordinately large population. In fact, it would be the biggest in the province.Could you give us any suggestions as to what areas might be removed from McKnight to account for this, or if that's part of your plan?8560-441-459-08 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Alberta 2022AlbertaElectoral boundariesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooGeorgeChahalCalgary Skyview//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you. I appreciate that.Mr. Boissonnault, perhaps I will go to you second.It seems to me that you argued that the Laurier Heights and Parkview neighbourhoods should be added back to Edmonton Centre, because they share community halls with the Crestwood neighbourhood inside the riding. I have been there, but I am not an expert on all these neighbourhoods, so I apologize if I am mistaking any of this. However, all three of these neighbourhoods have separate community halls and community leagues. They are all in the Edmonton community league district E, but district E is split in half between the proposed Edmonton Centre and Edmonton West.Could you explain why the community leagues in Laurier Heights and Parkview are connected to Crestwood and not the adjacent neighbourhoods of Lynnwood, Jasper Park and West Jasper Sherwood?8560-441-459-08 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Alberta 2022AlbertaCommunity organizationsElectoral boundariesGeorgeChahalCalgary SkyviewRandyBoissonnaultHon.Edmonton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]I'm curious. Adding Laurier Heights and Parkview would reduce the population of Edmonton West by about 6,000, if I got that correctly, and then the proposed Edmonton West riding is already below the population quota.Do you have any other areas to suggest that might be added to Edmonton West to account for this?8560-441-459-08 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Alberta 2022AlbertaElectoral boundariesRandyBoissonnaultHon.Edmonton CentreRandyBoissonnaultHon.Edmonton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]I understand that the commission doesn't actually look at future growth of the population, but I thought I would just add that.I have only a few seconds.Mr. Soroka, what is the value of trying to keep all of Yellowhead County in one riding, when doing so requires splitting up other counties? Could you help me understand that?8560-441-459-08 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Alberta 2022AlbertaElectoral boundariesRandyBoissonnaultHon.Edmonton CentreGeraldSorokaYellowhead//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English] Thank you so much, Madam Chair.I thank all the members for being here today to testify. Of course, I'm a member of Parliament from British Columbia, but I represent a very rural riding. It's a huge area. People are dispersed all over it. I don't get to stay in one large community and visit and just go out occasionally. I spend a lot of time on the road travelling—on boats, on ferries and sometimes in waterplanes, depending on the situation. I really hear what you're saying about the need to not have people travel too far away and the fact that often an MP's office is like a service provider. If the MP's office isn't there, it means that people can't access services or they have to travel a long distance. I appreciate that everyone is here to talk about the importance of this region and representation. All of you spoke about it directly. The first thing I want to get clear is this: Does everyone on this panel believe there should be four and not three ridings?The second part of my question I will leave open to all of you. There was also mention from every person testifying here today that, looking forward, the commission should look at rural communities and how to understand them in a different way. What do you think the commission should consider? What should we be promoting, future forward, in honouring the fact that we have such a large country, with many very remote areas that have unique stories? If we don't have voices in Parliament to share those stories, it creates a weakness, not only for those regions in terms of political strength, but also for the strength of our whole country.8560-441-459-07 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Quebec 2022Electoral boundariesProvince of QuebecRural communitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooKristinaMichaudAvignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]I have no questions. Thank you, Madam Chair.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1110)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair. It's good to be back in the committee. I apologize for missing some of last week, but my constituents in some of my more remote communities really appreciate the time I had with them, and I just want to thank them for always having time for me. I do have an amendment, and I'll get that sent to the clerk, but before I talk about the amendment, I want to say that my history in this committee is that I resist heavily having staff come in when they are not the people who make the final decision. Sadly, what we have seen in this country is a continuous leak from CSIS that tells us that there is something serious that we need to be concerned with, and after that many leaks, I am persuaded that it is imperative that we now have to take a step that I was not necessarily initially comfortable with. People in this country trust their systems, and whenever there are questions on those systems, we need to address those questions and make sure that those systems are stronger as a result of the work we do here. The NDP, of course, brought forward the motion that everybody mostly agreed with around the public inquiry. We feel very much that this needs to be done in a setting that is public where, as my colleague Mr. Cooper talked about earlier, there would be an element of transparency and sunlight shown on this issue. If we are going to ask Canadians to trust their elections, then we must be held to that account.Hopefully, it is seen as a friendly amendment to the motion. Has it been sent out yet? I want to make sure—Committee witnessesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMotionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1115)[English] Thank you so much, Chair. My amendment is simply that we add at the end of the sentence after “a.”, “and” b. invite the following individuals to appear before the committee as part of the study, provided that they be sworn or affirmed:i. Jeremy Broadhurst, Azam Ishmael, Hamish Marshall and Walied Solomon, national campaign directors for the Liberal Party of Canada and the Conservative Party of Canada during the 2019 and 2021 federal election campaigns.ii. Jenny Byrne, Leader of the Official Opposition's senior leadership advisor, and Tausha Michaud, Chief of Staff to the former leader of the Official Opposition.Madam Chair, I was just recently in Brussels, where we met together with the NATO Parliamentary Association, and there are a lot of concerns about foreign interference. I think it's absolutely imperative that we take this very seriously. We know that 11 campaigns from both the Liberals and Conservatives have been implicated in some of the information we've heard come out. I think that this needs to be an open and transparent process, that we recognize that all foreign interference matters and that if we're going to have strong systems that our country can rely on, we definitely need to have this kind of transparency happening here. I hope that it's seen as a friendly amendment and that we can move forward on this very serious issue that's impacting us here in the House, in Parliament, but also Canadians across the country. Thank you.Amendments and subamendmentsCommittee witnessesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMotionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMichaelCooperSt. Albert—Edmonton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1210)[English]I'm happy to move that amendment. I would love to see a vote on that.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJohnNaterPerth—Wellington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English] Thank you, Chair.I thank everybody for this very interesting conversation.I just have a few things that I feel are really important to say.First of all, I will say that it has—and I talked about this earlier—been my practice and that of the NDP not to support bringing staff. I appreciate Mr. Fergus' quoting the amazing MP, Peter Julian, and the work he did in this committee and the things he said. That is largely the position the NDP takes. People are elected, they make decisions, staff implement those decisions.However, we cannot pretend that those statements that Mr. Julian said happened, and then the next day be opening the papers with more leaks coming out of CSIS. I just feel frustrated right now.Our leader was very clear. He said we should have a public inquiry. This place and this committee have supported the NDP motion to have a public inquiry, and it will be tabled in the House very soon, I'm sure. That is a transparent process.Canadians are now worried. I'm not doing this because I like to tweet and get a good headline. I will take the punches. I have been in this room and I've said, “No, I will not support having documents looked at that way,” because I care about national security and because I represent a base in my community, 19 Wing, where people are called on to serve this country. I take that very seriously because their lives are literally on the line when we ask them to do that. I don't want information coming out in a way that is going to jeopardize Canadians or the people who serve this country. That matters to me.I don't want an immature process, but I also cannot take away the reality of how many leaks have been coming out that have said things directly related to a person we have named in this motion.Until there's a transparent process through a public inquiry where there can be processes put in place to make sure that all of our security is addressed, and that we're not leaking information out that is going to be harmful to the people who serve our country, I just don't see how we can do anything but go through this process in PROC.It's really unfortunate that we're here. We've been very clear about what we want to see, but those things are not happening. The Prime Minister had an opportunity yesterday to have that be a part of the announcement. He chose not to, so here we are today having this discussion.The other reality for me is that Canadians care about this. Canadians are emailing my office. They are worried that our systems are not strong enough, that our institutions are not strong enough. You know what? I agree. I agree that the Conservatives often use information in a way that I would not use it. There are a lot of political points they're trying to make that are very harmful, and I will say this publicly—and I just have—that they can use it in whatever way they want. They do that.The other part is that this government left a void. If you've got people concerned and you've got people bringing up information in a way that is not appropriate, then it's not really on the government to create a response that is meaningful, because the more fear we have in our communities, in our institutions—and I've said this throughout this whole study.... How many times in this study have I prefaced everything I said by, “How do we make sure that Canadians have faith in our institutions?” Everything that we do around this table should be around this.This has become partisan. It's a committee. There are different parties that are represented here and we're all going to have our partisan perspective, which is exactly why our leader said to take this out of that partisan realm and put this in a public inquiry so that there will be an accountability measure for Canadians. That is why this is so important.I appreciate and I deeply respect the work of NSICOP. I absolutely do. They do important work and I appreciate it.The problem is, at this point, so much misinformation and so many leaks have come out that Canadians don't have security. If we have NSICOP do the work, it will not be public enough. I'm not talking about the details behind it; I'm talking about the process where the public is included in the system. This is where we're at.I will fight every single time to make sure that we don't have documents used in a way that could be harmful to the people of this country. The fact is, when the Conservatives put forward things around the legal clerk or the law clerk, they do not have specific training in national security. (1250) We cannot allow information to be out there in that way. We have to make sure that we're protecting our institutions, Canadians and our elections. However, today the motion that we're talking about does not have anything about documents. It's about how we figure out what was happening at a time, how we address the issue that this information is being leaked repeatedly and to whom it is being leaked, these journalists with certain ethics and requirements. So we have to trust that when they're saying this is happening, there's something behind it that we have to look into. Speculation creates fear and that's what we're seeing. We're seeing more and more fear. I'm hearing about it in my riding. People are talking to me about it as I'm out doing the things that I do to spend time with my constituents. That means that we need to have something, and that's why the NDP brought forward the idea of a public inquiry. That's why we fought so hard in this place to make sure that we had a motion that said so, and that's why our leader called for it. So I agree. We need to depoliticize this situation. I think my friend Mr. Fergus talked about that. I agree that in this room it is getting really politicized. So again, let's see the Prime Minister step up and not just make the announcement that he made, but actually see that investment in a public inquiry so that we have something to hold on to. You know, every opposition party yesterday called for a public inquiry, so let's see what we can do to make that happen. This was not easy for me. I struggled with this as I struggle with everything. As an elected official, I believe fundamentally that if you are not struggling most of the time, you're not doing your job well. When we have hard situations we have to think about them. We have to ponder them and have to consider the implications of every decision we make, not only for our careers, but most importantly for the lives of Canadians.So I think this is quite frustrating to be here. I know that we're getting close to one o'clock. I don't know if we're going to continue. I do want to say to the committee that I'm not interested in seeing other committees shut down. So that's just some food for thought. Our work is really important here, but I don't think any committee's work is less important and we need to be mindful of that. Maybe the clerk could let us know, if we were to extend, how many other committees would be cancelled. I guess the other thing is that I see in our meeting notice for Thursday that this will be the issue that we'll be talking about again. So I would just like that confirmed, that one Thursday we will continue on this.I also want to just speak to the fact that we do have important work to be doing in this committee. We're talking about the election boundaries for future federal elections. We have people who want to talk about the concerns they have about the ridings they represent or ridings they feel connected to. We need to be doing that work. So I hope we can get through this part to the next step. I am not trying to make a big play. I think everybody at this table knows that I am not a person who comes here to play partisan politics, Superman-like. We definitely all have people like that. I am not that person. I want a reasonable solution to a very complex and hard question and issue and situation. I also want there to be some sort of transparency so that Canadians can be assured. They need to know that their institutions work for them. They need to know that when there are comments about the institutions not working for them, we will make sure that they do work for them. We all know that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that misinformation being used by foreign entities that want to undermine our democratic ability to govern ourselves and to break down fundamentally the well-being and connection of our communities is happening. We've heard of it many times where false groups are made up on different forms of social media. They engage people who have particular fears. They ramp up those fears and then bad things happen in the community as a result of that. We need to take this seriously because if we have people coming into our communities and talking to folks and making them more afraid so that they don't participate in our democratic situation...which is why I will also remind this table that I brought up again and again that we want to make sure that rural and remote communities have access to good information. We know that papers, local papers, are struggling profoundly across this country and they provide good information, as opposed to just social media posts with unknown sources. We know that ethnic communities are targeted. We know that indigenous communities are targeted. We need to make sure that those issues are dealt with. I stood in the House and asked for unanimous consent to get that happening. I didn't get that unanimous consent. I'm hoping in this committee we can be talking about that.(1255) These things all matter. It is our democracy, and our democracy is reflective of how our communities are doing. If our communities are being ripped apart by false information, by foreign interference, we have an obligation as members of Parliament to take that seriously. Unfortunately, we're put in a situation where there are so many leaks that we have to do something.I don't want to be here. I don't want to be bringing staff in. But we must take action. We cannot sit here and not take action, when Canadians are saying to us very clearly, “We don't believe these systems are strong enough. We don't believe the government is being transparent. We want action and we want answers”. I will do my job, and I hope that everyone around this table will also do their job.Thank you.Amendments and subamendmentsCommittee witnessesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMotionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (5735)[English]Well, thank you, Madam Chair. It's good to be here at PROC bright and early. I want to thank and acknowledge the chair for providing more times to meet. I was very concerned when I came here on Tuesday after question period and saw that we were not resuming. I think it's important to get back to this work. I appreciate that we've seen this happen after some conversations.I am interested in this. Today we were supposed to meet with the ministers. I want to question them, and I think that's an important part of the work we do here. I am concerned about the fact that we'll have a couple of ministers, when there was pretty much clarity that we wanted one minister at a time to focus on. That does concern me. I'm hoping that if there are two, the ministers will come back to see us again.I have some process questions that, at the end of my intervention, I would really appreciate the clerk to provide us some information and guidance on.I know that today we are returning to a suspended meeting from Tuesday. I also noticed from the PROC notice of meeting that the ministers are coming, apparently, from 12 to one today, with a meeting prior to that hour, from 11 to 12, that says “to be determined”. I'm just wondering if the process can be explained. If the ministers are coming, would we have to adjourn this particular meeting to start another meeting? I would like some clarity on that. I think that will have an influence on some of the decisions I have to make today.For me, the goal I'm hoping we get to before the ministers come to see us is that we vote on Mr. Turnbull's amendment and then on the initial motion brought forward by Mr. Cooper and amended by me. I want to know from the chair if there will be time after question period to resume this meeting if we do not get that work done. I also want to know, from the clerk, if that will impact other committees and what that would look like.I also want to put on the record for my friends around this table that at 3:30 p.m. today, I have a very important meeting with a community in my riding that has come all the way out to Ottawa because they are calling for a state of emergency because of the number of deaths they've had in their community. They're feeling very concerned about overdoses and suicides, largely among young people. I cannot miss that meeting.I am asking for everybody to just consider—we obviously have time to consider this—that if we do come back to this meeting, perhaps we can wait till 4:30 p.m. so that I can be at that very urgent meeting with my constituents. They came here from across this country. It is imperative that I be there.I also want to recognize that sometimes it's hard to find subs on a Thursday afternoon.Madam Chair, this is so serious. We are sitting around this table discussing things that are so important. There are so many leaks, and they are, in fact, detracting Canadians from having faith in our institutions. I think it's unfair to simply say to this committee in this work.... We know those leaks are coming out. More came out yesterday. That is why I'm here in this very difficult position. I hear again that Mr. Fergus is courting my very good friend—I'm the whip and he is the House leader—Mr. Julian, whom I work with. I have a lot of pride in the incredible work and dignity he brings to this position. It was not an easy decision for the NDP to pull forward staff, and it's not a comfortable place, but we also have to understand that the day after Mr. Julian made his very important remarks—which I think we should all listen to very carefully and consider—we again saw more information come out. When that keeps happening, you have to find a way forward.We have asked the Prime Minister very clearly to make sure there is a public inquiry. Jagmeet Singh has been very clear. My leader has said repeatedly that there needs to be a transparent, public and independent process here. I deeply respect the work of NSICOP and the members from every party who are on that committee. I think the work they do is incredibly important. I very much honour the fact that national security is something we should be careful about. This is why, historically, I have voted against motions the Conservatives have brought forward. I felt they did not address the issue of national security sufficiently, and that concerned me.(5740)I'm also concerned that national security and our institutions are being threatened by how many leaks are coming out in the press. I just want to remind everyone that these journalists are people who take their work very seriously. There are other people who call themselves “journalists” who do not take their work very seriously, and if the sources were coming from them, I would be very hesitant to take this step. That is not who this is coming from. These are journalists who have very high standards, and I think we need to listen to them. I feel very uncomfortable to be put in the position that I have to make the decisions I'm having to make.I am not very content, Mr. Turnbull, with the amendment you brought forward. It doesn't meet the criteria I have. I understand that a special rapporteur is going to be appointed, but we're still waiting to see who that will be.I want to be very clear: With everything the Prime Minister has proposed, it is all secretive. It doesn't allow for what we are calling for, which is a transparent, public and independent process. I also want to be clear that within these processes, honouring our national security and making sure that information isn't broadcasted can be done in that process. We need somebody who's independent leading this so that Canadians can have faith in their institutions. This is undermining the fundamental belief of so many Canadians in these institutions, and that matters to me greatly.I will wait here and have this conversation, and I'm hoping I can have some answers. If I can't have them right away, it would be good to have them fairly soon. I just want to know what the process is so that I can better understand it.I also want to say I agree that, through this system, through what we've seen happen over the last few months.... I am concerned about the rhetoric I'm hearing from the Conservatives in their positions. I think it's frightening. It's divisive. It is such a system that says, “Let's be afraid of everything, and everything is broken.” I don't believe everything is broken. I don't believe so because we have strong, amazing Canadians across this country who represent every single party in how they vote. They are strong and they have faith. We know that if we come together, we can find good solutions, and that is what I'm focused on.I don't want this to be about drama and intrigue. I want this to be about getting down to answers. The minute that we see a public inquiry that is transparent, independent and public, we're going to have lots of different conversations. That is when the doors are opened for Canadians. At the end of the day, that's whom I'm here fighting for.I want Canadians to have absolute faith in their institutions. I believe in our institutions, and I have a lot of pride in our institutions. I want to make sure we strengthen them with everything we do. I have tried to do that in this committee, but unfortunately this is where we're at. I've had to make some very uncomfortable decisions, and I will make them because Canadians require that and they deserve the truth, so let's get to it.Amendments and subamendmentsCommittee witnessesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMotionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (5945)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. I think what would probably be helpful to you and to this committee is for me to outline what I'm hoping to see today. First of all, I hope that today we will actually get to a vote. I would be very excited to do that, and if at any point the other side is prepared for that, I am here for it.I would like to hear from the ministers, but I have a bit of a concern. I want to make sure we continue because I want to get to a vote, so we may need to continue to discuss this. I hope we get to hear from the ministers. I hope we continue to stand in this committee until question period. I have heard a lot of kind words from members around this table about the fact that I have a very important meeting with constituents from North Island—Powell River. As you can imagine, that is a big trip, and it's a community facing significant challenges.What I would like to see is that we return at 4:30 to continue this work. I do have another committee at 6:30 that I would like to go to. I am very hopeful that we'll get to a place where we can have the vote done and be wrapped up so that I can get to the veterans affairs committee.I also recognize that if the vote does not happen, we'll be continuing this next week more than likely. I think that's very concerning. I really appreciate what the chair has said about paying attention to constituents and having time with constituents. I live a far way from my constituents. I have a rather large riding, so I can't always get to a computer to do this work, as much as I would like to, because I'm with the people I serve.I hope that around this table, all of us remember our accountability to Canadians. I am a little disheartened to hear some of the comments I've heard on the Liberal side today. One of the things I heard Mr. Gerretsen talk about—I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about it if he's not here, but hopefully he will hear what I'm saying—was recommendations. He kept talking about how we should be working hard on recommendations so we can give them to the government. I've been on a lot of committees in this House for a lot of years. I've done a lot of really important work and I respect the people I sit at the table with, but very often we do not see recommendations go anywhere meaningful. I believe in this work and think it's really important, and I will always encourage government to look at hard work with multiple parties coming together, but I want to be really clear. Mr. Gerretsen is implying that us doing our work here is going to somehow fundamentally change what the government is doing and how they're accountable, but I don't think it will. If that were the case, then in veterans affairs we'd have things like the marriage-after-60 clause revoked. We would have the disability benefits being delivered and the backlogs would be dealt with. Those things have not been done in my other committees, so I'm not in any way persuaded that the important work of this committee is going to fundamentally change what the government does.I was also really disappointed to hear on the other side this intention to undermine the importance of a public inquiry. The reality is—and I will keep saying this—the information coming out in the media is really what is guiding Canadians to lose faith in our institutions. As parliamentarians, we have the job to try to build that faith, because those institutions really do matter. If we want a strong democracy, having faith in those institutions is absolutely fundamental and key.I heard from Mr. Gerretsen that it might take too long, that we might not get anything done and that everything is changing so rapidly. Of course it's changing so rapidly. I spent time yesterday, on International Women's Day, talking about how women leaders are targeted in social media and how to respond to that. One of the challenges, of course, is that things keep changing so quickly in technology that it makes it hard to do that work. I respect that. I respect that things change quickly, but it doesn't mean we do nothing as a result, and that's what it feels like. It feels as though there's been an implication. Ms. Sahota talked about it being too expensive and things taking too long. (5950)We just recently had the public inquiry on the Emergencies Act. That was a very important piece of that legislation. It allowed Canadians to feel and see there was a process happening that addressed their concerns. They knew that was happening, and they could observe part of it and get some sort of response back. The Mass Casualty Commission is happening too. Those things matter. People just need to know that the work is being done.We keep coming back to this assumption that there's a carelessness around national security. I'll say, from the NDP's perspective, that I don't feel that at all. We care very much. We respect the role of NSICOP. We know there is key work that needs to be done. We understand their processes and how they communicate with Parliament, but the public has been concerned with this issue. The media would not be reporting on it if people weren't asking for more information. We know that as leaks continue, they build a lack of faith in our systems.We need to make sure that this is addressed, and I believe the public inquiry will do it. It's important to remind everyone around this table of what the Prime Minister said: If the special rapporteur says we need a public inquiry, he will fully support that. Why don't we just get to that? Why don't we get to a system that Canadians understand?I understand there are always misconceptions. We could talk about misconceptions here in the committee if you want. As politicians, we always understand that there are a lot of misconceptions and confusion, but here we are.We should be having this discussion. I see some excitement in the room, so maybe ministers are coming, but what I need to hear from the chair, if these ministers are coming, is that we'll be able to return to our work. That is because if this side of the table does not want to get to a vote, we need more time to converse about this.Amendments and subamendmentsCommittee witnessesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMotionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (5955)[English]Chair, can you explain to us when we're going to hear about that? I am the whip for the NDP. I've been very clear and my team has been clear that we are open to having this committee continue. When will we know that?I am feeling a lot of pressure to somehow magically allow the ministers to do the thing we're here to do, but we're also asking in good faith for a process to make sure that we get to continue this committee and continue this work. How are we to say that we're comfortable having the ministers here if right after that, this meeting will be adjourned, we'll all go to the House and next week we'll be back at this again? I'm hoping that before the ministers come to this table, we have some answers.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (6000)[English]Can we get any idea of when we would have an update on that? Maybe the ministers could come for half an hour. Then we need to move on, because we haven't had this assurance. I don't want to disrupt the ministers. I want answers. I think we've been very clear at this part of the table that I'm here to find solutions. I'm not here to grandstand or to make some sort of political drama. Canadians need answers.I'm worried, Madam Chair, and I think I've been very clear about this since the very beginning this morning when I spoke. We need an assurance that if we allow the ministers this space, we are not losing our space to do the work we are here and tasked to do. Will you be able to give us an update during the middle...? I need some sort of assurance that we can continue this work after question period.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (6000)[English]I have a point of order. Can we have a unanimous consent motion? I propose a unanimous consent motion that we continue after the ministers and return at 4:30 after question period.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesJenniferO'ConnellPickering—UxbridgeBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (6005)[English]I recommend that we do that and have faith that you're going to figure it out and that the whips will do their job. I'm—BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (6005)[English]I'd like the ministers here for the full hour, so I certainly hope we'll be back here at 4:30. If we aren't, I guess we'll deal with that then.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (6045)[English]Thank you, Chair. I thank the ministers for being here. I'm grateful that you waited for a few extra minutes to sit at the table with us today. I also want to put it on the record that when we have that kind of intense back-and-forth, it's also very hard for interpreters. They do hard work for us, and I hope that all of us respect the work of those folks when we're having conversations.My questions are going to be through the chair for Minister Joly. This is a really serious issue. I am very concerned, and I take this very seriously. I appreciate the fact that you talked about the difference between the Chinese government and the Chinese people. That's something I hope every Canadian hears very clearly—that we cannot mix up the two. I'm also very curious about the fact that, as I read in The Globe and Mail, which cited a CSIS report from December 2021, a Chinese diplomat, Tong Xiaoling, boasted about interfering with the elections. I'm trying to understand this. I want to understand. Were you aware of the intelligence reports? Were you aware of those or any similar accusations of Ms. Tong? We know that she did not leave her post until August of 2022, even though the CSIS report of her claims of interference was provided eight months earlier. I'm trying to figure out if you were aware of this. Were there any actions taken on the part of you and the department to pressure the Chinese government to withdraw her as a diplomat? Could you give us some clarity on that? I think this is part of the problem and why Canadians are questioning so many of our institutions.ChinaDiplomacy and diplomatsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-Cartierville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (6050)[English]Thank you for that, Minister. I hear very clearly that you cannot answer that.What I'm trying to understand is how this person, in this particular position, was allowed to stay for eight months despite the fact that concerns were raised.I guess the other component of this question, and you referred to it earlier in your conversation, was that the department did refuse to grant a visa to a person who was coming from China in a new diplomatic position at their embassy in the fall of 2022.I know you can't go into nuances, but could you at least provide the public with some sort of understanding of how it is that one individual was allowed to stay in this country for eight months after explicitly boasting about interfering in our election process, and later on you were able to refuse a visa? I'm trying to get some clarity. Was there a specific change within the process? I want to understand the process so that Canadians have some sort of transparency.If you can't speak to this in specifics, has something changed? Is there a new rule that you're implementing that is preventing this? Is it because they were already in the country? Do we have weaknesses in removing people who should be removed from our country? Is it easier when they are at the door to prevent that from happening?If you could provide some sort of process answers, I think that would help clarify to Canadians their serious and important concerns.ChinaDiplomacy and diplomatsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-CartiervilleMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-Cartierville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (6050)[English] I apologize, but I have 10 seconds left.It's clear to me, and what I understand you are saying, is that it's easier to prevent people from coming into the country than it is to get them out of the country when they're here.ChinaDiplomacy and diplomatsFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-CartiervilleMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-Cartierville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (6105)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.My question is going to be for Minister LeBlanc, but before I ask that question, I want to say, as a woman politician, that I remember at the very beginning of my career being asked if I was tough enough to do the job, and I think that it's absolutely devastating that this frame of reference would be used in this way.I believe a minister has a position of power, regardless of gender identity, and that should be respected. I'm sure that internationally it is, and I think it is shameful that it was even said in this place.I want to put that on the record.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-Cartierville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (6105)[English] Through you, Chair, for Minister LeBlanc, when I look at where we are at right now, we know that Canadians are rightly concerned. Our political system and our electoral system are being discussed around kitchen tables, because people are not sure if they can trust our institutions anymore.We know that many people with a lot of experience—Richard Fadden, Jean-Pierre Kingsley, Gerald Butts, Artur Wilczynski and even my leader, Jagmeet Singh—have all asked for a public inquiry.I fundamentally believe that the process needs to be transparent, public and independent. Right now, what is happening is we're seeing all of this debated and fought out in a very public political realm, and it's extremely partisan. That concerns me, because if we're going to have Canadians trust our systems, we need to have processes that engender faith and belief. Right now, we have a feeling that the government is hiding something. We have the Conservative Party creating a lot of fear, telling people that they have to stop trusting what we should all trust, and we're not focusing on how to strengthen our systems in an ever-changing reality of foreign interference from many, many countries.I wonder if you can explain to me why the Prime Minister says that if the special rapporteur says we need a public inquiry, we're going to do that. Why are we waiting? Why are the systems and everything that is being proposed by your government not allowing for that transparent, public and independent frame?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-CartiervilleDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (6430)[English] Chair, thank you for that. I think I'm done, but I would love to hear the list of names just so I have a better understanding of who will be speaking, and then I'll decide if I want to put myself back on the list.Thank you.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (17830)[English]That's excellent, Madam Chair. I'm a little surprised. I thought I had a bit of time, but that's wonderful. I'm happy to start today's conversation. I won't take a lot of time—BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (17830)[English]That's excellent. I have a few comments to make. I just want to say that I am concerned. I'm concerned by some of the comments I'm hearing from the Liberals that make me feel a bit like they're undermining the work of the journalists in this country who have brought some of these leaks to our awareness. It's really important. We saw this in the convoy, and it was very concerning to me, this idea of minimizing the work of the media and talking about it as fake news. That's stuff from the other side of the border with our neighbour, and I don't think it has a place here in Canada. I just want to caution the Liberals about how they talk about those things. It concerns me greatly. I think we have to respect the role of the independent media and the work they do bringing forward issues.The other thing I am concerned about is some of what Ms. Sahota brought forward. I'm sorry that she's not here at the moment to respond, but she talked a lot about the cost of the inquiry and how expensive it would be. I just feel that Canadians collectively are really concerned about the state of our institutions and that, as elected officials, our job is to really bring forward those concerns and make sure we address them in a meaningful way. A public inquiry also really provides that opportunity for Canadians to have faith in a system that will allow for those conversations in an independent, public and transparent process. I think that's what Canadians are asking for right now. Hopefully we can see a bit of a change in the tone and dialogue around this.I also want to add that, from my perspective, we have some important work to do in the committee, important work about the boundaries for future elections and what that's going to look like. We have important work in this committee, so I hope we can get to a place where we can vote today. We have the amendment first, of course, and then we can get on to the next part of this.Madam Chair, I think I'm just going to let some of the new members around the table share their thoughts. I'm really interested, but I certainly hope we get to a vote quickly. I think that will be important for us in terms of next steps.Thank you.Amendments and subamendmentsCommittee witnessesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMotionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (18715)[English] Thank you so much, Chair. I hope the sound is good. I was gone for a short period of time. You'll let me know if the interpreters have any concerns, because I definitely want to make sure they're supported.Madam Chair, this is a serious issue. I don't take any of this lightly. We are talking about how elections are done in our country and the impacts of foreign interference. That is incredibly serious, and I take that very seriously as I move forward in these discussions.I do want to say that when I look at Mr. Turnbull's amendment, I have no problem with it if it's added to the content that we have already in the motion. I just don't see it replacing.... I don't think it's appropriate. There's a long history in the NDP—and I've heard many of my Liberal friends remind us of that—of not pulling in staff. Unfortunately, we're in a situation where this keeps coming out in the media, and it is impacting constituents and Canadians.I was really surprised to listen to an earlier member from the Liberal benches today talk about how it's no big deal, about how no one in his riding is contacting him. I don't know his riding. He knows his riding better than I do, but I can assure him that I am not here because I enjoy being away from my constituents when I should be with my constituents. I'm here because my constituents have contacted my office enough for me to understand that they are experiencing some serious concerns around our democratic institutions, and we need to take that seriously.That, to me, is the very point of this. This is why we've been calling for a public inquiry. This is why we've been saying repeatedly that it must be a process that is transparent, public and independent. We've now gotten to a point where all people hear is the Liberals justifying, instead of us saying, “Okay, we're now at a point where we have to have a public process because Canadians are getting concerned and those institutions fundamentally matter.”I too trust our institutions, and I agree that they could be stronger and better. This is why a public inquiry is so important to the NDP. I think it's very concerning that the Liberals have been pushing back against a public inquiry by suggesting that it's unable to deal with secret information. We know that's not the case. We've seen that happen before. It can happen again. I'm also very concerned because I heard MP Sahota, when she was here the other day, dismissing them because they cost a lot of money. Again, that's really concerning to me. It isn't about us as politicians. It's about Canadians in this country having faith in our systems. When she compared it to the LRT inquiry, suggesting that it wasn't worth the cost, I'm not sure that people from Ottawa would share that opinion. I want to bring this forward. This is concerning to me. This is a position right here in this committee where we are very partisan. That's the truth of politics. That's why we're asking for it to be in a venue that isn't partisan, that really takes Canadians' concerns seriously and lets us know what's happening. That's it. It's a transparent process. I want to point out that I've been listening to my friend Mr. Fergus speak for over an hour and a half, I believe, about the Arar commission and how that investigated intelligence leaks and misleading leaks from government sources, which, I think it is important to note—I think he noted it as well—was a Liberal government at the time. I agree that we got a lot out of that report, and I think this is the part that I find most perplexing. It is an excellent example of how relying on a public inquiry to get to the bottom of things, to get information out for the public to have faith in that..... It's like watching the member argue for what we're asking for. I'm not sure why that is not happening. There's a really great opportunity. It sounds like he's calling for a public inquiry. I support that. Hopefully, we can get some actions done.I also want to come back for a moment just on a personal note. As you know, we saw something happen today where we had a member raising their voice. I want to recognize that it was dealt with and I appreciate the apology that was made, but one of the things that is sticking with me is the difference between intention and impact, and that when we're talking about these decisions that we make, we must be always focusing not on our intention but on the impact.(18720) When I talk about a public inquiry.... To me, it's about what will be a good impact. I hear from the Liberals that they have great intentions. They feel they've done a great job dealing with these issues, and I respect, fulsomely, all the members of NSICOP. However, the impact of what's happened in this country is this: More Canadians are not trusting their public institutions. I want to remind everyone that we need to focus not on our intentions but on the impacts of the things we do and the actions we take. It was referenced about the importance of spending time, in constituency week, with our constituents. I couldn't agree more. I've had to move a lot of things to accommodate this day, and I did it because I take my job very seriously, as I know everyone around this table does. I don't want to miss time with my constituents. In fact, I was thinking of Ms. Romanado, yesterday, when I was in Gold River. I was talking to the fire chief of Gold River and Tahsis, and was very disheartened to hear, from the fire chief of Tahsis, that they have no space to deal with their contaminated suits. Their building was condemned and everything is now in a sea can. When they do anything, they have to think about it very carefully, because, if they get any kind of moisture on their suits, how they're going to dry those is particularly hard. They don't have the proper infrastructure. When I think of the work we are doing today, and the fact that we are sacrificing precious time with our constituents.... Everybody in this room needs to honour that. I honour it, especially because there are volunteers in my riding who will run to the fire and save people's lives and houses the best they can, yet they don't even have the right place to decontaminate their suits. That is wrong, in this country. It's shameful, in this country, and there's a lot of work to be done, here. I also want to say that, when we see something come forward that is public, independent and transparent, I am very happy to move quickly. I appreciate that a special rapporteur.... I agree that is something used all over the planet. It's a role that's very specific. I think most Canadians know what that is, because Canadians are intelligent. I appreciate that. However, it is a baby step on an issue that is front of mind for far too many Canadians. I want to see it taken out of this partisan place. I don't want to see this issue used to make political wins. I'm seeing the parties using it to make political wins. I worry about that. I worry about how it's being used to create more fear. I don't like that. I don't do that easily. I never do that, personally. I want us to get to a place where we can vote on this and move forward. I listen to what Canadians are saying. I see what's in the media. We need to remember that, if we do not have these issues dealt with, in a way Canadians can have faith in the process, it will become increasingly partisan. I'm asking everyone to work together, please, and try to get to some sort of solution. Let's go to the vote. Let's get to work for Canadians. Hopefully, we'll see something happen quickly around a public inquiry. I think we can all agree that Canadians deserve answers. This is the clearest way forward, in my opinion. Numerous opinions have come out supporting that. Of course, our leader Jagmeet Singh has been very clear, repeatedly, in the House of Commons, that this needs to happen. Let's work together. Let's get to work around the boundary redistribution. I am also concerned. I have members in my own party. I've heard from other members who have put forward concerns. They want to be talking to the committee about getting that work done. I think we need to focus on that work, but we're stuck here, because the Prime Minister won't call a public inquiry. It's simple. I hope you all figure something out. I hope that all of us remember our impact is way more important than our intention, and work for Canadians.Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm happy to release the floor to the next speaker.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1905)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to thank all of you for being here today. I will start first with Mr. Dufour. I heard very clearly that you work mostly with medically released veterans, and that is one of the top concerning populations. Could you talk about the methods you use to connect with those veterans? You also said in your testimony that it can sometimes take years to get all of the accessibility parts in place. I'm just wondering if you could talk about why it takes so long and what challenges you're facing in the work you do.Employment opportunitiesVeteransVocational counsellingEmmanuelDubourgBourassaMarc-AndréDufour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1910)[English]Thank you for that. I'm really fascinated by this. In the work that you do, do you see any barriers in accessing resources from VAC for veterans who are medically released? I think you mentioned accessible workplaces. I'm curious if you've had any opportunities to work with employers or directly with a veteran who is in the workplace around how to make that space more accessible for them?Access for disabled peopleEmployment opportunitiesVeteransMarc-AndréDufourMarc-AndréDufour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1910)[English] This is my last question; I know I only have about a minute left. I really appreciate what you said about the coaching, but what we've heard from multiple witnesses is that often there is a stigma from employers towards veterans. They think that all veterans come with a lot of trauma and PTSD, but that's not necessarily the case. In the work that you do, do you ever hear feedback from the veterans you work with that they find stumbling blocks from being perceived in a certain way as they go along their process of looking for employment? I'm wondering if maybe the coaching isn't just for the veterans. It might also be to open doors for veterans with employers.Employment opportunitiesInformation disseminationVeteransMarc-AndréDufourMarc-AndréDufour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1920)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Ms. Adams, I'm going to ask you one big, long question with four different parts. I'll give you the rest of my time to answer.I checked your website for veterans programs. I saw that the page you have only focuses on the education and training benefit.Is any of your training created and tailored specifically for veterans? Can you take me through the process of a veteran applying to be trained with you? Does the veteran come to you? Do you help them with the process of applying for the education and training benefit? I would also love to hear your thoughts on the process and timeline.Have you ever had a situation where you had to turn a veteran away because of a lack of funding?Thank you.Adult education and trainingEmployment opportunitiesVeteransVeterans’ Education and Training BenefitEmmanuelDubourgBourassaJeannineAdams//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. I thank all of the witnesses today, and of course a special thank you to those who gave such important service to our country.I'm going to start with Ms. Kilgour. First of all, I just want to say how much I enjoyed getting to know some of your colleagues when I had a meeting with them last year and I'm really impressed by the work that's done. I was also very happy to see that you were at Comox, at 19 Wing. That's the area I represent and I'm a big fan of all the folks who serve us there. That led me to think about the process you go through. Of course, if you were doing it at 19 Wing, I'm assuming people were in the time of transition but not all the way transitioned. I'm just trying to get a clearer picture about when you start to work with people. Is it just wherever they are? Is there that pre-transition work?Employment opportunitiesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaKathleenKilgour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]I think that's important as well.I want to thank you for mentioning that 25% of the people you're working with are women. It's awesome to see such a good number, especially considering the fact that we don't have 25% of women serving in this country. I am curious about something. You talked about speed networking and networking events. I'm wondering what that looks like and how people become involved. Employment opportunitiesInformation disseminationVeteransKathleenKilgourKathleenKilgour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English] Awesome.I'll turn to you, Ms. Copeland. You talked about participating in a six-month mentorship program. Could you just talk to us about what that looked like and why that was so helpful?Employment opportunitiesEntrepreneurship and entrepreneursVeteransKathleenKilgourErinCopeland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]Thank you for that.Perhaps I can come to you, Mr. Lamothe. You talked also about participating in the training boot camp, I think you said, in Halifax. You also mentioned in your testimony having an honest broker. I'm just wondering if you could talk about what that means and also what the benefit was of the boot camp.Employment opportunitiesEntrepreneurship and entrepreneursVeteransErinCopelandPatrickLamothe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2025)[English]My last question is going to come back to you, Ms. Kilgour.I'm really curious to know if you could talk to us about the website that hosts all the veterans' businesses. How do veterans connect with that? How do people in Canada who want to support veterans connect with that?Employment opportunitiesInformation disseminationVeteransWeb sitesEmmanuelDubourgBourassaKathleenKilgour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2030)[English]Thank you.If I heard that correctly, the first hour of the Monday meeting would be for the subcommittee and the second hour would be in camera, but back to the whole committee to review what the subcommittee proposed. We can then identify which studies we're doing next.For the next one, if we can get the minister.... The minister's pretty good to us, let's be honest. That's on the public record, so there you go. If we can get him to come in on that Thursday, that would be fantastic. If he can't, my recommendation would be to do a first overview of the report in camera, so that it gives the clerk enough time to contact witnesses for the next study.From my perspective, we've done enough on this current study. I'm ready to be done with it, but interested to hear what other people have to say.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2035)[English]I'm open to having the whole committee discuss committee business for two hours. What I am hoping to see is a plan up until the end of June. Of course, nothing will stay completely.... We always hope, and life happens. I would say that if the minister can't come on the Thursday, then I think we should look at the rehabilitation report. Then for both we don't have to hope that witnesses show up. We either have the minister show up or we do the other. That's my thought.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2035)[English]I agree with Mr. Tolmie, on the record.Committee businessFraserTolmieMoose Jaw—Lake Centre—LaniganFraserTolmieMoose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1620)[English] Thank you, Chair, and I thank all of you for testifying today in front of this committee.My first question will of course go to Mr. Thivierge.First of all, I want to thank you for your many years of service. Thank you for that service already to this country and for continuing this important work in Ottawa. I think that's very commendable. I appreciate your working so hard to make it a friendlier place for the people who have served us.In terms of my first question, we heard really clearly in the testimony last week that one of the biggest challenges when military personnel leave the military and move into the veteran stage in their lives is that there is not a document that meaningfully explains, in a way that the civilian world can understand, the amount of training and knowledge they have. We heard from veterans who talked about leaving the service and then having to be retrained in things they were already experts in, simply because that translation of those amazing skills cannot be carried into the civilian world. I'm just wondering if you have any feedback or thoughts on how we can make that a little different and better for veterans.CredentialsEmployment opportunitiesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaAndréThivierge//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1625)[English]One of the things you mentioned—through the chair, of course—in your testimony is the fact that there's a stigma about veterans. Often, overcoming that can be a challenge. You talked about working with the private sector to help them understand the realities of the huge asset that it actually is to hire a veteran. I'm just wondering, when we look at this study, whether you think it would be appropriate for VAC to take a more active role in educating employers on the assets that veterans bring.Employment opportunitiesVeteransAndréThiviergeAndréThivierge//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1625)[English]When I hear you speak of that, it seems to me that instead of having a broad approach for the whole country, it might make sense to have a more regional and personalized approach across Canada.Do you have any thoughts on that?Employment opportunitiesVeteransAndréThiviergeAndréThivierge//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]Thank you.AndréThiviergeEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1645)[English]Thank you, Chair.I'm going to come back to you, Mr. Thivierge. I have a couple of questions.We've seen from the research that the veterans who are falling behind after service, in terms of employment, are newer veterans who did not serve long, women veterans and medically released veterans. It is shameful that we don't have a good strategy to support these particular groups in order that they may have the best experience after their service.Do you have any thoughts on that? What actions might we recommend to VAC to address these issues more fully?Employment opportunitiesEqual opportunitiesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaAndréThivierge//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1645)[English]I saw you nodding to Mr. Thorne's response on how it would be so amazing to have veterans providing services at VAC. Do you have any insight on why that pathway doesn't seem to be as clear, so that we have more veterans doing that important work?Department of Veterans AffairsEmployment opportunitiesPublic Service and public servantsVeteransAndréThiviergeAndréThivierge//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Thank you.We're at 18 minutes. I think this is very interesting; I just think it's time to call the vote.I move to call the vote. How's that?Amendments and subamendmentsCommittee businessVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1745)[English] Thank you, Chair. I didn't get the extra 30 seconds. I accept that.Ms. Taylor, if I could come to you first, I saw that you created the “Canadian Guide to Hiring Veterans”. I'm just trying to understand how this tool is used. Is it given out to employers? You talked a bit about how it would be important for SMEs and other organizations to consider veterans. I'm just wondering, is this a tool that's being used? If not, could it be used more effectively?Employment opportunitiesInformation disseminationVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLisaTaylor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1745)[English]Thank you.I'm going to ask both of you this question. I know, based on a lot of research, that there are particular groups of veterans that struggle more profoundly: women veterans, newer veterans who didn't get a lot of service time and, of course, veterans who are medically released. I'm just wondering if, in the work that both of you have done, you have found anything that's particularly meaningful or effective for those three groups, because we want to see their outcomes get better. I am hoping to have in this report some substantive recommendations that provide guidance for VAC.Employment opportunitiesEqual opportunitiesVeteransLisaTaylorLisaTaylor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1750)[English]That's my time.CassandraPoudrierEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1905)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. I thank all the witnesses for being here. I deeply appreciate the information you've shared with us so far.I'm going to come to you, Helmets to Hardhats. I will leave you to decide who answers, because you know what you do the best.One thing you mentioned in your introduction today is about having created a specific initiative for women and LGBTQ2+ veterans. I'm wondering if you could expand a little on what that looks like so we can better understand what framework you're moving forward with.Employment opportunitiesEqual opportunitiesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaPaulBury//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1910)[English]Thank you. That answers a bit of another question that I have, which is around whether you have particular strategies to reach out to these communities. It sounds like you have people who are actually going out there.Is that different from the attraction strategy for veterans generally? Is it a little more specific?Employment opportunitiesEqual opportunitiesVeteransPaulBuryPaulBury//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1910)[English]Thank you for that.It's interesting. A lot of the research says that there are a few different groups of veterans who are challenged in terms of finding employment after service. One of those groups, of course, is women veterans, and another is veterans who served for a very short time and are now out in civilian life. Another is medically released veterans. One thing that I'm hoping will come out of this study is more ideas about specific ways to do that outreach so that those numbers aren't continuing to fall below or behind other groups of veterans and they have an opportunity.One other question I have is around whether you have specific targets in terms of the numbers of folks from these communities participating in the program.Employment opportunitiesEqual opportunitiesVeteransPaulBuryPaulBury//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1910)[English] That's excellent; I look forward to that.Another thing I noticed in your intervention with us, and I know you didn't get to everything.... One thing that really impacted me was that once the receipt of documents is done, there's that really good reaching out to the veteran—making a phone call, talking to them about the process and looking at what's happening for them personally. I'm wondering if you do that with every single veteran and if you feel that it is part of the capacity to retain them in this industry.Employment opportunitiesInformation disseminationVeteransPaulBuryNormandTrépanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I am going to come back to the amazing Helmets to Hardhats. I will, first of all, just say how much I appreciate the work that you do. I've been really impressed. I love your monthly stats. They are so transparent. They let us know how many veterans are registered in your program. That's incredibly helpful. They let us know what provinces.... It's fantastic.I have a couple of questions. First, what kind of support do you provide when they move to the work site? I'm curious about that, because it sounds like it's one of the important parts of supporting that civilian transition and all of the different steps. As they go through this process, how do you support them in each of those steps?Employment opportunitiesSkilled workers and skilled tradesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNormandTrépanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1930)[English]Perfect. Please speak in French. The interpretation is amazing, so whatever works best for you is great.The other question I have is with regard to the supports for military spouses and dependents. Having represented a base for a long time, I know that one of the challenges is often that the spouses and dependents are sometimes frustrated because they're moving from place to place and they don't have the ability to develop their careers.What kinds of supports do you have in place, and how do you feel they support the veteran?Employment opportunitiesFamilies and childrenVeteransNormandTrépanierNormandTrépanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1930)[English]Thank you.NormandTrépanierNormandTrépanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English] Thank you, Chair.I want to thank the members here who have testified. Thank you both for your tremendous service.Of course, Mr. Davis, I really appreciate the advocacy you're doing for the Persian Gulf War vets in bringing awareness and recognition of that situation. We must always acknowledge that service. When our country and citizens fail to do so, I think it's so important that you stand up and do that work and that we all do our best to support that voice being heard.Coming back to this study, one of the things both of you talked about that impacted me was the idea of translating what it means when you serve into civilian skills, the fact that it isn't done at all and that often members will have to retake training for things they're already very skilled in to prove that they know what they know. I thought it was very important that you talked about the security clearance you received. Of course, when you move into civilian life, that clearance is not translated into civilian life. Again, it feels like a way of not celebrating the tremendous training and effort and the people who serve our country, and I think that's very shameful.Could you speak a little about what you think would help with that? During the transition process, however that transition process goes in leaving the military and moving into civilian life, should there be a process included in which you have the military outline your qualifications, almost like a verification that you can bring to future employers? Do you think that would support veterans in moving forward into civilian life?Mr. Davis, I will ask you first, and then Mr. Tremblay.CredentialsEmployment opportunitiesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaHaroldDavis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2020)[English]That was an excellent answer, Mr. Davis.Mr. Tremblay, I'd love to hear from you.HaroldDavisAlexandreTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2030)[English]Thank you. My question is for Mr. Tremblay. I feel very concerned that we are making you work so hard when you have so many serious things to look after in your household that I know are taking a lot of energy.My question for you is actually two in one. The first question is about specific challenges that you think reservists face in their transition. The second part is that we have also heard from research that one of the biggest gaps in supports for veterans involves entrepreneurship. I wonder if you could speak to what would be supportive for a veteran who's considering entrepreneurship to move forward.Canadian Forces ReservesEmployment opportunitiesEntrepreneurship and entrepreneursVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaAlexandreTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2035)[English]Well, it looks like we have just a few seconds left. I'm just trying to identify what the biggest challenges are for folks who are reservists transitioning into employment. We have no time and I don't want to upset the chair, so if you do have time to write those down and send that information to the clerk, I would really appreciate it.Canadian Forces ReservesEmployment opportunitiesVeteransAlexandreTremblayAlexandreTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1130)[English] Thank you, Chair.Of course, all of my questions go through the chair as they must. I want thank all of the people who are here testifying before us. For me the biggest concern I have is that Canadians have faith in our system, and that if there are problems within our system we fix those and we don't create a bunch of fearful speculations but rather a conscious effort to bring clarity and understanding. I feel that this is an area that we all need to do a little bit better in, to be quite frank.We know that China and other foreign actors have had involvement in Canada's politics and have been going on for quite a long time trying to interfere, and that's very concerning. We see that, in the 2019 election, there were some pretty profound things that happened. We're hearing that there hasn't been an impact on our elections, but I think people's fear is growing and that really concerns me.I'll direct my first question to Mr. King, and if anybody else wants to answer it please feel free to join in. I feel, based on the research I have done, that Canada is far behind so many other countries and that concerns me greatly. My first question is around the registry. What kinds of discussions are happening internally? I know you can't give us all of the details, but I think Canadians want to know there is information out there that we've heard. There isn't clarity on how that has impacted us in a way. There's not clarity, quite frankly, around what MPs and their parties can do to protect themselves. I'm concerned that there could be something happening and I would be merrily going along my way doing my work during an election and I would have no idea.Is the registry being discussed, and what are other ways that we can look forward to in elections so that MPs can protect themselves from these kinds of things? Are there specific questions of ourselves and our parties? I heard Ms. O'Connell talking about those things and saying the Conservatives.... How would they know when to ask? What are the things that we need to be watching for as parties, as political folks, as MPs, as people who are running to be MPs, to have a better awareness and ask the correct questions so that hopefully we can get the information we need to do the things we need to do during the election process? I know that was a lot to take in.Federal electionsForeign influence transparency registryForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLyallKing//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you, Chair.One of the other issues that I'm really concerned about is misinformation and how that's impacting.... I have an especially significant concern about any impacts it has for rural and remote communities, indigenous communities and different ethnic communities, so I want to preface that.I saw that the report released by the CSE in 2021 states clearly that Canadian voters will very likely encounter “some form of foreign cyber interference” in the next federal election, so my question for you is this: Can you explain what that foreign interference looks like online?What policies are being implemented? What measures are being taken to educate Canadians, so that they have some awareness that this might be happening to them and that they should question it? How are we protecting Canadians?Digital literacyFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLyallKing//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Through you, as always, my first question is simply this: How does an MP become aware they are targeted? Is the MP or party notified—or both? You talked about the government being notified. Is the government the only one? I'm trying to get that clear.The other part of that question is this: What is the protocol during an election, compared to pre-election time?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooCherieHenderson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Thank you.The next question I have is for the RCMP.I'm curious. I've heard stories from folks who feel they've been exposed to foreign interference. There are people from vulnerable communities who want to come forward and talk about things that may be happening within their ethnic community. Sometimes, when they go to the RCMP—depending on the community—there's no awareness, so they get passed around without a resolution to the problem.I'm wondering what tools and resources are available to everyday Canadians to report information related to foreign interference. Is there a need for the RCMP to have a little more training, in order to address those issues in a more meaningful way?Crime reportingFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesCherieHendersonLisaDucharme//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]Thank you, somewhat. I appreciate that. I did appreciate one of the recommendations. I think it was you, Ms. Henderson, who talked about opening the CSIS Act for sharing information with different levels of government. Right now it's pinioned in at just the federal level but not the other levels, and I can imagine that for provinces, territories and municipalities it would be very useful to know that information.Knowing the reality of our world, that how foreign interference intersects in our communities is an ever-changing, growing and developing reality, I'm just wondering if there are any other changes to the act or to any other legislation that would be helpful to allow the work to be done in a more meaningful way.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesLisaDucharmeCherieHenderson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]My last question goes back to that idea of misinformation, especially in different types of social media and other media outlets. Should the Canadian government have a clearer process to publicly identify foreign-based sources of disinformation, like a public naming or revealing, to let people know that these are sources that might not be safe for us to gather information from?Communication controlFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesCherieHendersonLyallKing//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.This has been a very interesting conversation. It is frustrating. I think we're just trying to get clarity. I reflect on the fact that, if this was easy and not complex, wouldn't that make life a lot easier for the process? I really appreciate the comments made during testimony about the fact that this is evolving. Adapting to that evolution is a key part of this process.I'm hearing a lot about what's happening in terms of monitoring the foreign interference. I'm curious about the other side, which is what's happening around deterring that. Is there any place where actions are happening, but there are no laws? Technically that means nothing is happening that is inappropriate, but there's a concerning trend. How are we going to address that? Are there gaps in legislation that could help address those things?What I'm really trying to wrap my head around is where the slippery slope is. Do we have the appropriate rules in Canada to deal with that slippery slope so that we don't get to the part where we're over the edge? In terms of that, is it a question of creating more transparency like other countries have done with tools like the foreign agent registry?I hope that makes sense. I'm just trying to figure out where the gap is and how we can start to fill that. How do we use those processes to inform Canadians in a more fulsome way, not necessarily of the details but of the processes in place to protect politicians, people who are running to be politicians and the country at large, and for addressing foreign interference?Crime preventionFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooCherieHenderson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1230)[English] Thank you, Chair. I'm going to direct my first questions to Mr. Johnson. I appreciated your testimony today. As we're discussing all of this, what I hope we're all going to come back to, despite our political differences, is how we make sure our systems are strong enough and how we make sure that we're building trust within Canada and holding all systems to account so that people have faith in our processes. That's something that I'm really aware of.You talked a lot about disinformation and how many people are being pulled into that world. They don't always have the tools that they require to evaluate it more objectively and understand where the source material is coming from. I definitely see that in my constituency, and I'm actually surprised in my role by how many people send me articles just to ask, “Is this true or not?” I am now given the capacity to decide for them, and that's not a role that I think an MP should take on. You mentioned in your testimony the idea of having a national media literacy strategy to evaluate programs. Could you expand on that and what that role could potentially look like? Within that, I'm also very curious about what sort of digital media literacy awareness we need to see focused. I represent a more rural and remote area of the world. Are there things that are specifically important for those communities and for indigenous communities? Those are two groups that I represent for which I'm particularly concerned about the impact of disinformation and how we get the proper tools to those communities to be able to address that problem in a meaningful way.Digital literacyFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMatthewJohnson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English] I have 20 seconds. If you could add that on to my two minutes and 30 seconds, that would be great.MatthewJohnsonBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Thank you.The question I'm going to ask this time is for Mr. Mulroney.I found it interesting. You talked about the four points that you thought were priorities. Of course, there was the registry for the foreign agents and then having Canadian police participate more in ethnic communities. I believe I got that right. I'm just curious about how those two things could potentially intersect, because I've heard things from different ethnic communities—for example, the Uighur community—that have brought forward concerns or tried to bring forward concerns to the RCMP and police, and it's like they just get passed around. Nobody really knows how to address that issue, but the threat is real in Canada.I'm just wondering how those two things could coincide and support one another so that we have more supports for people in our own country who are under those threats that you both have mentioned so clearly.ChinaFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesIntimidationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDavidMulroney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English] I guess when you look at all the things we're talking about—the threats to our political systems, the influence that particular groups can have—I'm just wondering.... You stated very clearly that we need to have that foreign agents registry put into place, make that stance and then get onto the consulting. To both of you, who would be at the top of the line to do the consulting with to make sure that this happens? What will that action do to impact China and what it's doing in Canada?ChinaFederal electionsForeign influence transparency registryForeign influenced activitiesPublic consultationDavidMulroneyCharlesBurton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1555)[English]I have a point of order, Chair.I'm so sorry to interrupt, but we're hearing from the interpreters that the sound isn't right.AndréThiviergeEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1600)[English]I'm so sorry to interrupt this witness, because I'm very excited to hear what he has to say, but what the interpreters are saying is that the sound is still not clear enough for them to do the interpreting.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaAndréThivierge//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]Thank you. It certainly won't be less. You know me, Chair.First of all, I just want to say that I don't want to talk about the right of first refusal. In fact, if we start talking about it, I will immediately end the conversation, because in this study, what I'm interested in is how we best support veterans. If you're different from another organizations, that's cool; I don't care. I just want to hear what your success is. I want to get that out right away, because I just don't think this is the right place. I certainly acknowledge you're doing your work, and that's your business, but I just don't think this is the place for that discussion.This is my first question, and I'm going to ask both of you. I'm going to start with GardaWorld Security Corporation. I'm just curious. In the structure that you have, how are veterans in leadership and guiding you in the methods you are using to support veterans?You can go first, and then I'll go over to the National Association of Career Colleges. Business managementEmployment opportunitiesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaSimonBernier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]Yes, if there's a way that you could check that out with your colleges, I think that would be really helpful for this program, because I think leadership really.... I appreciate that. You talked about the wearing of ribbons. That's nice, but I understand that you talked about an advisory board. Hopefully, there is some staunch leadership in that role, because it's important. I've read through a lot of research around the outcomes of employment for veterans. It's very clear that there are three particular groups that are struggling with employment after service. Those three groups are young veterans who have not had a lot of years of service; women veterans, although we still don't really know why, which is very concerning to me; and medically released veterans. Knowing that those are the most vulnerable groups and that they don't have the best outcomes—that is what the research says—could you speak specifically about the strategies you're putting into place or considering that create opportunities for those three groups to participate in the supports that you have and the training that you have, and tell us what the outcomes are? How do you measure those outcomes, especially in those particular groups? Do you even measure those outcomes?Employment opportunitiesVeteransVulnerable personsMichaelSangsterJean-LucMeunier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English]Do you have any statistical information on younger veterans?Employment opportunitiesVeteransColleenArnoldColleenArnold//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.I first have a request for GardaWorld Security Corporation.I'm wondering if you could share with the committee the starting wage and wage range for veterans in the different positions that are provided. I assume you don't have that on your person right now. That would be really helpful.I have a second question for both of you. I'll start with GardaWorld.I'm a little concerned, because I heard in your testimony that you don't track veterans unless they self-disclose. That's interesting. I ran a non-profit, and we had to identify everyone. There you go. That's very interesting. How do you measure outcomes in terms of veterans getting the training, the employment and then the retention of employment? I have the same question for you as well, Mr. Sangster, around the training, retention and employment. That information would be really helpful to the committee.Employment opportunitiesIncome and wagesRetention of employeesVeteransWork-based trainingEmmanuelDubourgBourassaColleenArnold//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1715)[English]Now I want to be difficult and say no, but I'm not going to do it. I'm fine with it being public.It sounds like we need to probably plan, as per what Blake said, another public subcommittee meeting in the next while to have discussions about studies going forward. I will remind everybody on the committee that I'm pushing really hard to have a study on women veterans. Every report we read talks about the fact that we don't know enough about women veterans. I think we need to spend some time on that, and hopefully engage the government to look into it a bit more with some fundamental recommendations. That's all I have for my intervention.Thank you so much, Chair.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1720)[English]Thank you, Chair.This is an interesting discussion. I just find it odd as well. I support what Cathay said about a contract that's not translated into both languages. I think the only thing we need to talk about is that it should be done quickly, and the analyst is a very brave and fearless person, because he has to read that 700-page contract. Thank you for doing your work; it is much appreciated.I just want to put on the floor again that I think we have the next two meetings, and that gets us through to a break week, and then we come back for one week. I would recommend that during that time we have a subcommittee meeting to go over what our strategies and plans are moving forward. I'm really excited to see who the Liberal will be on the committee, so I'm really excited to get it to happen. I think that's where we should go.As for the report, hopefully we'll be able to hear by next week that it's moving along quite well. That will allow us to decide what we're going to do next. I would assume that we're going to have to have closure of one of our meetings with committee business again next week.Thank you for that, and thank you to the analysts for reading that document.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Your wisdom is increasing every day.I really appreciate what Luc brought up, but I think those discussions really belong with the subcommittee, where we can talk about what's next. I think we should finish the two, have the subcommittee meeting, and then hopefully be able to present to the committee as a whole a plan that will get us through until the end of June.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1905)[English]Thank you, Chair. Through you, of course, I thank all the folks who are here today testifying. It's been very informative so far.I'm going to come to you first, Mr. Guindon. You talked in your testimony about the culture that is there and how it feels very familiar to veterans and retired RCMP who come to work there. It sounds as though people settle into the job fairly quickly. I'm wondering if you could talk a bit about what that culture is and why you feel it's so appealing. That would be helpful.The other part of the question is around numbers. How many veterans do you have working and how many RCMP? If you have any numbers around those things, that would also be very helpful.Canadian Corps of CommissionairesEmployment opportunitiesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaPaulGuindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1905)[English] Thank you. That was very helpful. We've also heard from research that some of the veterans who have the greatest challenges finding employment are newer veterans. You've talked about this particular group. They don't have as much experience and they don't bring a pension with them, so sometimes there can be challenges there. There are also challenges for those who are medically released and for women veterans.Could you talk a little about what you think it is that leads to so much success in bringing brand new veterans in, and how that assists. I'm also wondering if you have any other information specifically around medically released veterans and women veterans.Employment opportunitiesVeteransPaulGuindonPaulGuindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1910)[English]Thank you, sir.HarryHarschEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Thank you, Chair.I'm going to come to you, Ms. Lowther. One of the things I heard clearly from your testimony and some of the responses you gave is that perhaps one of the best ways to move forward is to have a clearer system of VAC providing information to service providers and veterans about the resources and services that they have. I'll ask you two questions. The first is how you would see that working more effectively. The second is how your organization measures success in the work that you do in terms of connecting veterans with employment.Employment opportunitiesInformation disseminationVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaDebbieLowther//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1930)[English]I have only a few seconds left, so I'll give those back to the committee, Chair.DebbieLowtherEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1940)[English]On a point of order, Chair, it's not working. GordonMacEachernEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2010)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I thank you for your testimony. I appreciate that you're all on your own in dealing with all of us today. Hopefully, you have some water there to help you through this.I have a couple of questions. We've seen from the research that there are different groups of veterans who are struggling, particularly in terms of employment. The top three that I have in mind are those who are medically released, women veterans and veterans who have served for a short period of time. Those seem to be particularly vulnerable groups. There have been some recommendations through this process that the government and VAC are still going through. They did “Let's Talk Veterans”, and they're on the second stage and taking in that information. I'm wondering if you feel there should be a specific outreach and targeted approach to talking to these veterans who seem to have slower outcomes, struggle financially a lot more and are not getting to the next step that we would like to see veterans get to.With your many years of expertise and knowledge, I'm wondering if you think there should be a more targeted approach to making sure those voices are heard, and whether whatever system is put in place by VAC really includes strategies that will enhance their opportunities.Employment opportunitiesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaCarolynHughes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2010)[English] Thank you for that.We've also heard some testimony that when veterans and their loved ones go to get services and supports, even to service providers, they're not being provided the resources and services that VAC has. We heard testimony earlier today that there were services that VAC was overseeing in terms of connecting veterans with employment, but none of the case managers had informed the people who were working with veterans to provide support. That was concerning to me.I'm just wondering, in terms of going through this process, whether you feel that it would be effective if that were a little more streamlined and, I would say, just based on my work with veterans, repetitive, so that they would hear it multiple times? Depending on the day and the level of trauma or the concern, they might not be able to absorb that information, but if they hear about it regularly, just so they can consider it, that might assist them in accessing those programs later on.I would just love to hear your thoughts on that.Employment opportunitiesInformation disseminationVeteransCarolynHughesCarolynHughes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2025)[English]I just want to note, as a person who always keeps time, that we're at 12 and a half minutes now, and I'm a little frustrated that we have somebody who's a witness here, and she gets to watch us do our work. Maybe we could find another way to be more respectful to our witnesses. I want to put that on the record.I also want to thank the clerk for trying to figure out what we wanted and her hard work to try to clarify that. I think we should always remember that people are always patiently working behind us without any partisan views, just doing their work. I want to acknowledge that.I have no problem with changing the tone. I hope we can get this through and out the door, so we can get on to other business that is really important.I know there are members of this committee who have been waiting a long time for this study to get done, so let's get on with it.I would recommend, if there's a change in tone wanted by Mr. Samson, that he give us something, so that we can get on with this.Department of Veterans AffairsMotionsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English] Thank you, Chair.I thank the folks who are here today to present to us. We always learn a lot from this. As we go across the country, we certainly learn a lot more. I think we always have to appreciate the knowledge people have of their own regions. I appreciate that.I'll come first to Mr. Blaikie and ask a few clarifying questions.It sounds like the concern here—and I think we've heard this from other folks at the table—is that figuring out how to have a riding that really reflects the needs of the constituents is always a challenge, especially when you're looking at urban versus rural.I represent a fairly large riding. I wouldn't say any of my communities is extensively huge. They don't have that huge urban sprawl, but there is a distinct nature to each of those communities.In my region, for example, when folks talk about the riding being called North Island, my constituents in the real North Island are always very clear to indicate that where they are is the true north and that the other parts of the riding are not, in fact, the true north, so it's generous of them to include those parts in that title. I think we see that all the time, and we have to respect those voices and the intricacies. I really appreciate Mr. Scheer's comments earlier about having an identity between rural and urban areas and wanting to keep those together so you can showcase that it is the true sense of your region.It sounds like there are voices from people who feel they are not heard. When you are in a place where you don't have that representation, obviously you're going to speak out and want to have your voice heard. That's what I hear you doing today.I wonder if you could talk a little about whose those voices are and what some of their concerns might be. Why is being part of an urban riding something that they feel is particularly important for them moving forward, in terms of their political and regional identity?8560-441-459-05 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Saskatchewan 2022Electoral boundariesSaskatchewanBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDanielBlaikieElmwood—Transcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English] Thank you. Since I have about eight seconds, I will give that time back to the committee.DanielBlaikieElmwood—TransconaBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I'll ask this question of all the panellists, starting with you, Mr. Steinley, since you're to my left. I'm curious about whether you can speak a bit on the work you've done, in terms of looking at these lines and talking with indigenous communities, in order to see how they feel about that representation and whether it matches the boundaries they see in their communities.8560-441-459-05 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Saskatchewan 2022Electoral boundariesElectoral representationIndigenous peoplesSaskatchewanBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooWarrenSteinleyRegina—Lewvan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I want to thank everyone for their presentations today. I'm going to go to Ms. Ashton and then follow up with you, Mr. Bezan, on this very concerning process. I'm really glad to hear you're here doing the important work that you need to do, especially around indigenous communities.My first question for Ms. Ashton is around the work she's done to consult with the indigenous communities that are currently within her riding. It sounds very clear to me that there was one process put forward. The nations felt comfortable with that, and then suddenly there was a new map provided by the commission. It really confused everyone and has brought up issues that could not have been foretold.One of the things that really concern me through this process is that we should be a country that is working actively to encourage indigenous communities to participate in the federal election process. The best way you can do that is by making sure their voices are heard. I would like to hear from you, Ms. Ashton, on what work you've done with those communities to amplify their voices.The second part of this question is about what the commission could potentially do better in the future to include indigenous voices and make sure they are heard.As a B.C. MP, I think if the Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs said anything about a nation without consulting with it first or amplifying its voice, that would be a huge concern in my riding. I think it's really important that we recognize that this is a nation-to-nation process and that we have to honour indigenous communities and not undermine their voices in any way.I leave that to you.8560-441-459-04 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Manitoba 2022Electoral boundariesIndigenous peoplesManitobaPublic consultationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooNikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook Aski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Yes, I was going to come right to you, Mr. Bezan. I really appreciate it, and, before you start, I want to acknowledge how great it is to see non-partisan effort to have people come together and say that this is the right thing to do.Please go ahead.8560-441-459-04 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Manitoba 2022Electoral boundariesManitobaNikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook AskiJamesBezanSelkirk—Interlake—Eastman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you for that. I really appreciate the importance of the nations' knowing which riding, not necessarily which politician, they belong with. One of the things I've picked up in this conversation is the interaction between the different nations that are potentially going to be split apart. Maybe I'll start with you first, Ms. Ashton, to talk about the impact if those folks were.... I'll leave that with you. Thank you.8560-441-459-04 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Manitoba 2022Electoral boundariesIndigenous peoplesManitobaPublic consultationJamesBezanSelkirk—Interlake—EastmanNikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook Aski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1125)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that. I thank the member for coming in and sharing a lot of information about his riding.I have one question, so it probably won't take us very long. I'm just wondering if you have support from your community's mayors and indigenous leaders with respect to the objection you've brought forward.8560-441-459-03 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for New Brunswick 2022Constituency name changeNew BrunswickNew Brunswick SouthwestBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Thank you. I have no more questions, Chair.JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]I have no questions. Thank you, Madam Chair. BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Thank you, Chair.My first question, through you, is for MP Diab.I'm trying to understand the solution you're proposing. Perhaps you could clarify. Is it to extend the boundary of South Shore—St. Margarets into the city of Halifax or somewhere else?8560-441-459-01 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Nova Scotia 2022Electoral boundariesNova ScotiaBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLena MetlegeDiabHalifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]I have no more questions, Chair. Thank you.Lena MetlegeDiabHalifax WestLena MetlegeDiabHalifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Thank you so much.Mr. Battiste, you talked a lot about righting this wrong. In terms of system change, what would you recommend to the commissioner around engaging indigenous voices in a new way?8560-441-459-01 Report of the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Nova Scotia 2022Electoral boundariesNova ScotiaBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooJaimeBattisteSydney—Victoria//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]That's all for my questions.JaimeBattisteSydney—VictoriaBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1600)[English]Thank you, Chair. Thank you, all, for being here today.My first question is around the fact that there has been a clearly identified employment challenge for veterans from these particular groups: younger veterans who have less service, and female veterans—partially because they leave before having 20 years of service, which means they have less access to their pensions, and also recognizing that women are more than twice as likely to have part-time jobs—and medically released veterans.This is very concerning. In 2013 an income study showed that medically released and female regular force veterans experience larger reductions in income, 10 times the average, after release. That is staggering when we think of those numbers. Obviously, there are some significant challenges there that have not been addressed in a meaningful way.In terms of the public consultation, was there a particular strategy of outreach to those particular groups so that, as this strategy is put together, there is a plan that actually looks at the people who are not getting the best support to make sure that in the future they do?Employment opportunitiesEqual opportunitiesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaChrisHutt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Okay.I hear what you are saying, but what I am really asking is whether there was a specific part of this strategy that reached out to those particular groups. I hear there were 1,000 responses, and I'm happy to hear about the veteran indicator and the statistics process. However, was there a particular outreach to those marginalized groups? How are they going to see the system reflect their specific needs? Was there anything that was targeted to those groups so that their voices were amplified? Their voices are obviously being silenced.Employment opportunitiesEqual opportunitiesVeteransChrisHuttJaneHicks//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Once you do focus on those particular groups, will you update this committee so that we can see the work that is being done?I see some nodding of heads, so I am going to take that as a yes.Employment opportunitiesEqual opportunitiesVeteransJaneHicksChrisHutt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Thank you.ChrisHuttChrisHutt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Just to clarify my understanding, does that mean there will be a targeted approach in identifying those marginalized groups and watching them specifically and seeing what outcomes can be measured? Would we as a committee be able to observe those outcomes through the years? Okay.I don't know what the 17 questions were in the online consultation. I believe there were 17 questions. Can the committee have access to those questions? I have another round of nods, so I'm going to take that as a yes. That's fantastic.One thing that I am curious about is how the education and training benefit is going to fit in with VAC's national employment strategy. Is there any talk about how those two things will work together?Employment opportunitiesEqual opportunitiesPublic consultationVeteransVeterans’ Education and Training BenefitChrisHuttJaneHicks//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]I'm curious about trends in entrepreneurship. Are there any particular pathways that help with veterans who want to be entrepreneurs? For me, the riding that I represent is more rural, and that is a huge need in our area. I'm wondering, because I do understand that the take-up on the education and training benefit is fairly low. Within that context, what supports are there to help in these ways for veteran entrepreneurs? Would the department consider tweaking and changing it so that we could see more wins here?If the uptake is low, that tells me something is not working. Are there any changes within those two venues to change that?Employment opportunitiesEntrepreneurship and entrepreneursVeteransJaneHicksJaneHicks//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1625)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.Ms. Hicks, I'll come back to you.You mentioned that the education and training benefit seems to be having a pickup. Can you table stats with the committee, or send us to where we would get that information? That would be helpful.There are nodding heads. That's fantastic.My other question is on the potential bias, stigma and discrimination faced by veterans when trying to find employment. I've heard from veterans directly that there's a broad brush that paints veterans: They have mental health challenges. They're suffering from PTSD. They're unstable and difficult to employ. That's the perception they feel like they're battling out there. I wonder if VAC is taking this into consideration. What are the active steps that VAC is taking to counteract this false narrative?That's a pretty broad brush to paint every veteran with. It certainly undermines the high level of training and diligence that they had in their service. I wonder how that is being addressed. Will it be addressed more succinctly through this process?DiscriminationEmployment opportunitiesVeteransVeterans’ Education and Training BenefitEmmanuelDubourgBourassaJaneHicks//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1625)[English]Thank you for that.I want to come back—probably to you, Mr. Hutt—to the entrepreneurial stream. Again, and as I said, I feel this is not being picked up as well as it could be. I understand there are programs like the Prince's operation entrepreneur, but has there been any consideration, at all, to giving out more seed funding in order to help veterans actually open up this door—to look at those funds and perhaps have a bit more grace in the strategy, so they can have the financial resources to start their positions and businesses?Employment opportunitiesEntrepreneurship and entrepreneursPrince's Operation EntrepreneurVeteransJaneHicksChrisHutt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1715)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.If I could come to you, Ms. Maclean, first of all I want to say how much I enjoyed reading your research. It was very informative, and I appreciate the time you took to do that important work.My first question is really about the “Let's Talk Veterans” strategy that they use to consult with veterans. I noted and asked a question of VAC when they were here, and they acknowledged that the outreach did not include a specific strategy to do outreach to the groups that you mentioned are really having particular challenges. However, they said they would implement that at a later date.Do you have any thoughts on what would be the best strategies to outreach? We know that the outcomes for younger veterans, veterans with disabilities, female veterans and medically released veterans are really challenging. It's not working well. Do you have any feedback? Based on your research, based on the things that you learned, what would be the most effective way to outreach to those folks and make sure that this strategy actually includes solutions that will work for those stakeholder groups?Employment opportunitiesEqual opportunitiesPublic consultationVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaMary BethMacLean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1720)[English]Thank you for that.I read some of your research. It talked specifically about the fact that female veterans have been found to experience higher overall disability risk, and it also noted a higher rate of injury in the initial military training.In the research you have done, does this relate specifically to future employment opportunities?Employment opportunitiesPersons with disabilitiesVeteransWomenMary BethMacLeanMary BethMacLean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1720)[English]Thank you for that.One of the things that I struggle with is the fact that we in Canada still have very low numbers of female service members. Those numbers are still low, and no matter what they seem to want to do, it's not actually resulting in more women joining the forces. When I look at the outcomes for female veterans, it seems to me that there might be a cycle here that we should be considering.We saw in your research that most female veterans do not stay for the 20 years. That means, of course, that when they leave, they do not have that resource to help support them. What I saw in your research is that male veterans would have the 20 years and have their pension plus their employment, which would allow for better outcomes. Female veterans do not have that.Based on that, is there any information you can give us? Is there a particular trend? Why are women not staying in our service?Employment opportunitiesMilitary recruitmentVeteransWomenMary BethMacLeanMary BethMacLean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]I move to support it.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1235)[English] Thank you, Chair, and I thank all the witnesses for being here today. One of the things that's very concerning about the story about the 11 candidates is the fact that it has created a great deal of distrust across Canada in our systems, and that can never be underestimated. I think creating a sense of assurance that the systems work is very important, and I would like to see a bit more of that, because people see these things and they of course have a reaction. Could you explain what the rationale is for not releasing the names of the individuals who were targeted by foreign interference?Communication controlFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-Cartierville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]In terms of process, were the candidates aware that they were targeted? Do you know that?Communication controlFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-CartiervilleDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English] Thank you for that.I guess my next question is specifically around consultation with the parties. I read about it in some of the information. I'm just wondering if a candidate of a particular party was targeted specifically. I know you can't give details, but what was the process of letting the parties know? Was it something you talked about individually with parties if their particular candidate was identified? Was it something that was shared with all parties, not giving, maybe, the detailed facts? Were they alerted to that?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationPolitical partiesAllenSutherlandAllenSutherland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair.I want to come back because I am really fascinated by the process. I think having that process be clearer to Canadians will help us trust these systems and also be critical where we need to be. I guess, in terms of process, what I'm trying to understand is whether, when interference is identified, any actions are taken against those who have done the interference. Is it referred on to law enforcement? In that context, as well, are there any legislative gaps that prevent action that need to be fixed? I guess what I want to say in that last part of the question is that we're hearing clearly what the ministers and the department don't know, but what I don't understand is what you do know and how you look at what is happening to make sure that, legislatively and in terms of all our processes, those things are strengthened as we deal with this increase in foreign interference.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesPenaltiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-Cartierville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]It's foreign interference in elections.MélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-CartiervilleMélanieJolyHon.Ahuntsic-Cartierville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]One of the parts that wasn't answered was that if there is foreign interference and it's identified, are the people who did it charged, and who takes that on?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesPenaltiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooAllenSutherland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1115)[English]Wow. Let me think of all of the things I've always wanted to say. I think today is the day. I will not do that, because I know that at the end of the day, what we really care about is protecting veterans and making sure they feel safe and heard.I have no problem supporting this. I don't know that it will be the answer that will give us a solution, but I think it's a step along the way. In the long term, we just have to find a way to get this done and cleared up, and make sure that veterans feel safe. That may take a little time. I think the committee is part of it but may not be the whole solution. I'm definitely putting some time into thinking about that.At this point I think it's fine. I guess one question I would have, not so much for Blake but maybe through you to the clerk, Chair, is this. Do the dates make sense? I think 30 days seems fairly reasonable, but I acknowledge that we won't be back in the House until the end of January. It might behoove us if we could hear from the clerk if those dates make sense or if we want to maybe look at having them be just before we get to committee, a week before. I want to clarify those dates.Thank you.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]I just want to make sure. I thought I had clarified this last meeting, but it was in camera. Now we get a chance to do it publicly. I'm sorry about that.What I understand is this. The testimony from Ms. Gauthier was translated into English, and there was a bit of a miscommunication. I understand that she said in French—I will leave it to the clerk to tell me if I am correct—that she had received from somebody working with her through Veterans Affairs the offer of MAID, and that she had written a letter. She did not actually receive a letter from the department, but she had been offered it verbally. She then wrote a letter to the Prime Minister, talking about that.I just want to make sure that's clear. Mr. Casey talked about a letter from the department. I thought that was the case as well, from listening to the interpretation, but I was told later on that it was not the case. I think it is important that we have that officially on the record.The second thing is around this veteran called Bruce, for very important reasons. If there's a motion that Blake is planning to bring forward to increase the time for the testimony, and maybe a different process, I welcome it. I would be happy to look at supporting something like that to make this a more friendly environment for a veteran to come forward in.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]It sounds as though there is some interest in exploring the 45-day component and not the other one, so I'm just wondering if there's a way we could separate those two things. In a vote, I would be in support of extending from 30 to 45 days. I am in support of that part, and I've heard other people say they are in support of that. The other part, I am not in support of, so I just want to see if we could do that. I'll leave that to you, Chair. I just wanted to ask.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1200)[English] Can we call the vote, then? If it's not unanimous, let's just get 'er done.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]Well, I have to say I don't want to waste these people's time. I just think it's disrespectful to ask them that many times and then say, “Well, we might see you, but we might not.” I would say there's a lot for us to do. I certainly won't be sitting on my laurels during those times. There are a lot of other things I have to get done, but I don't want to disrespect witnesses, so I think today should probably be our last visit until the new year.Committee businessEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1705)[English]Thank you, Chair. I want to welcome all of the witnesses. Thank you for your testimony today.My first question is going to be directed to Mr. Béland. I am subbing, in fact, for my colleague Daniel Blaikie, as was mentioned earlier. He recently read the book you co-authored, Fiscal Federalism and Equalization Policy in Canada, which he thought gave a nice overview of fiscal federalism as it exists in Canada. He also recently read A Good War by Seth Klein, whom the committee has already heard from.One thing that Seth Klein talks about in his book is the idea of a climate transfer under the equalization payment model as a tool that government could explore using to combat climate change. As an expert on fiscal federalism, I'm wondering if you would be able to talk to us today about whether that is something you think governments could look at. What kind of consideration should governments take into account in discussions like these? Do you think there are any pitfalls around the idea of a climate transfer?Thank you.Climate change and global warmingEqualization paymentsFederal-provincial-territorial fiscal arrangementsPeterFonsecaMississauga East—CooksvilleDanielBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1710)[English]That's fair enough.I'm going to move to a different subject, but I am coming back to you, Mr. Béland.You alluded in your testimony to some ways you thought the Canada health transfer could be modernized. In my riding of North Island—Powell River, I represent a pretty large riding with a lot of rural communities, and we've hit a really significant crisis where emergency rooms are being shut down. For example, in one month, the emergency room was shut every night for 28 days out of the month which, you can imagine, is pretty concerning when you're having any kind of health issue.I wonder if you could talk about the thoughts you have around modernization of the CHT. Would it help to address some of these current concerns?How could we look at it to make sure that those more rural and remote communities get some of the supports that they need to go through these significant transition times?Canada Health TransferFederal-provincial-territorial fiscal arrangementsHealth care systemDanielBélandDanielBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1710)[English]I've only got a few seconds left, but the last question I'm going to ask is for you to follow up on what you were talking about in terms of demographic information. We have been noting for well over 20 or 30 years that we're going to have a huge increase in the aging population, unlike anything Canada has ever seen. When we look at how the CHT transfers work, in terms of modernization, how would we start to plan ahead so that we're not reacting as we are now at a crisis point?Canada Health TransferFederal-provincial-territorial fiscal arrangementsHealth care systemDanielBélandDanielBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Thank you, Chair. One of the main arguments for equalization in Canada is the principle of horizontal equality, which is to say that, regardless of where you live in Canada, there should be a basic or standard quality of life, or, as I like to call it, a “bar of dignity”.I'm coming back to you, Mr. Béland. In your essay on the economics of equalization, which is part of the fiscal federalism and equalization policy in Canada, you explain that principle, as well as some of the traps we can fall into. Would you be able to walk the committee through some of what you think works and some of what you think doesn't work?Thank you.Equalization paymentsFederal-provincial-territorial fiscal arrangementsPeterFonsecaMississauga East—CooksvilleDanielBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1755)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.Mr. Béland, your essay on the economics of equalization alludes to the cost of living and how that can encourage or dissuade migration. I think all Canadians from coast to coast to coast are feeling extremely strapped for cash right now. I'm wondering if you are concerned about the impacts of inflation. Are there areas of the country that you feel may be more at risk for feeling the impacts of inflation disproportionately? If so, what's the risk for provinces in terms of fiscally induced migration?Federal-provincial-territorial fiscal arrangementsInflationMigration and migrantsPeterFonsecaMississauga East—CooksvilleDanielBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1800)[English]Thank you for that. I know that a lot of provinces have challenges around this issue of migration. Families are often split up. In some parts of my riding, we see a lot of people going to different provinces to work. To come back, I understand it's not your area of expertise, but you talked about low-income people experiencing that. Do you see that as a factor for low-income provinces, as well? How does fiscal federalism help with supporting stabilization for communities? Is that even something that we can look at?Federal-provincial-territorial fiscal arrangementsLow incomeDanielBélandDanielBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1825)[English]Thank you, Chair. I'm going to come back to Mr. Béland. I'm finding our conversation really interesting. I want to circle back to the first question that I asked. In the answer you gave me you mentioned the idea of a climate transfer and the fact that it really hasn't come up as a domestic discussion. You outlined some of the avenues you think would be best to facilitate that conversation. In response to other questions you have also mentioned some ways other jurisdictions do fiscal federalism well—Australia and their GST, for example.With that in mind, do you know of any other countries that are exploring the idea of climate transfer, or do you have an example of somewhere else that has a climate or environmental lens to their approach to fiscal federalism and equalization?Best practicesClimate change and global warmingEqualization paymentsFederal-provincial-territorial fiscal arrangementsPeterFonsecaMississauga East—CooksvilleDanielBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1825)[English] That's fair enough. I hope you keep your eye out on that.When you did respond to me, you talked about the expert panel and how that might be one of the facilities and places that discussion could happen. You've talked a bit about what that might look like, but could you just give us a more fulsome idea of what that would look like, how that would be appointed, who would be invited and what their role would be in the context of these decisions? Federal-provincial-territorial fiscal arrangementsDanielBélandDanielBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1825)[English]Thank you.DanielBélandPeterFonsecaMississauga East—Cooksville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1130)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank all of you for being here today as witnesses.Where I want to start is, first of all, by acknowledging how many veterans are in the audience today hearing from this committee. I want to recognize them and thank them so much for their service.Before I get into the service delivery concern I think many of us share, I do want to acknowledge that it's a been a difficult period of time. We've heard stories from multiple veterans, some of them publicly and some of them anonymously, regarding their concerns about being offered access to MAID, which we know legally doesn't really make any sense. We've heard that there have been letters that have been sent both to you, Minister, and to the Prime Minister. What I heard earlier is that if veterans want to come forward to VAC, there is an openness to that and an encouragement of that, and that if they don't feel safe, they can go to the veterans ombudsman. I understand that and I do hope veterans come forward. This is very serious.I'm just going to come back to the fact that we still know that there is no recording by Veterans Affairs of conversations that happen. Right now what I understand is that a basic search for those discussions goes through case files. I'm just wondering if there is any exploration of this and, if veterans want their conversations to be recorded, any consideration of looking at this. It seems to me we're getting into a position where it becomes very much “he said, she said”, and veterans deserve better. They served our country. I just want to make sure we don't let this fall down. If there is a big concern we need to address, we want to see it done and we want to see it done well. Part of that is having something we can go back to in order to make sure this never happens again. I'll leave that to you, Minister, to respond to.Government servicesInquiries and public inquiriesMedical assistance in dyingVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]I'm sorry to interrupt, Minister, but the point I'm really curious about is whether there are any discussions about recording conversations so that we can do this. I don't think any veteran in this country wants to feel like he or she hasn't told the truth, and that's what I'm concerned about at this point. There is this sense of “We didn't know. Are you telling us?” I want to honour veterans' truth and their experience. This is very important, because they need to feel safe. Will there be any discussions moving forward about recording conversations or even allowing for the option that if a veteran wants a conversation to be recorded, it will be?Government servicesSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]I'm going to leave it at that.Government servicesVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Okay. Can I get on to the service? I think you've answered the question. The answer is no. I'm confused about that—Government servicesVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]—because Immigration does record those conversations, but that's fine.I just wanted to go back to the fact that we did have a service provider testify last week on her over 20 years of providing direct services. She did all the forms she was supposed to at the beginning, and then she received the form to fill out, and she did not have any of the services that she provided on the form. She requested from VAC information so that she could fill out that form properly. She has still not heard anything back. I'm just wondering. When you have a service provider who has worked with veterans for over 20 years, I would assume we don't want to lose that kind of experience. What is happening and what systems are in place to make sure that when they ask for information, they get it so that they're not just off the list and their experience gone?Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Just so you know, this isn't about services. This is about.... She provides, for example, occupational therapy. When she got the form about what services she could provide, that wasn't an option for her. She wondered which part of the form she should click.This is the problem. Also, it took a very long time. She still hasn't heard back. It's been a couple of months.Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransPaulLedwellEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you, Chair.I'm very concerned about this, because what I've heard from numerous case managers and from numerous veterans is that the numbers of people providing services have gone down, rather than up. That concerns me. It feels like we're being sold a bag of goods. It says 9,000 service providers, which is fewer than before.I understand, and I've heard this directly from service providers, that their pay level has gone down because of this contract. They're getting less money to provide the same services that they were providing before. That is very concerning. I certainly hope that is addressed in a meaningful way, because I don't want good service providers to stop providing valued services to veterans because they aren't making what they used to make for the same work. It makes no sense.We have also heard that the PCVRS and the RS—rehab service—specialists don't know how to get the clinical care manager in place for a veteran. That used to be put in place through Blue Cross, but there is a gap, so that position doesn't seem to be clear.We then heard from service providers who are trying to provide the services and trying to fill out the appropriate work. They did the expression of interest and then they got the form. The services they provide are not on the list. They're trying to figure out from the office where to put it, whether it is a different category and whether the office can explain the form, and they're not getting answers for months. This means they are not providing the service, because the deadline has passed. I am really concerned.We also heard from multiple case managers that the process that unfolded didn't make a lot of sense. They didn't know how to do it. They were concerned about providing their services to the veteran. They're worried because many of their jobs are not steady. They're often temporary workers. I look at all this.... Based on the testimony we had in this committee from case managers, we had multiple case managers emailing our committee saying, “Yes, we totally agree with this testimony”, so it seems to me that there are all of these issues.How are they going to be addressed? How is this committee going to be made aware that these issues are being dealt with in a meaningful way, so that veterans get the services they deserve?Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1205)[English]Mr. Chair, on a point of order, the interpreters—FraserTolmieMoose Jaw—Lake Centre—LaniganEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to get back to the fact that the AG did a report in May 2022 that was quite concerning to me. She expressed, very clearly, that the service standard had not been met in seven years, and that 80% of veterans applying for disability benefits for the first time were waiting about 39 weeks—which, of course, is a lot longer than the service standard of 16 weeks. What I found most compelling and fascinating about the report was the fact that the Auditor General said, repeatedly, that the data collection in VAC is so poor that it's impossible to identify where the bottlenecks are, or whether the solutions proposed or resources put into the system are actually working in a meaningful way. That concerns me a lot. This is the very core of accountability: having a data system that is clear enough to know that, if an improvement is offered or an announcement is made, it's actually going to mean something substantive for veterans.I'm wondering whether there are any discussions happening at the department around cleaning up this data collection system, so that bottlenecks can be identified and, when an actual solution is proposed, there's a way to measure whether it's fixing the problem that the announcement around dollars said it would.Department of Veterans AffairsInformation collectionPerformance managementSupplementary estimates (B) 2022-2023EmmanuelDubourgBourassaLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English] Sir, I don't want to interrupt, and I definitely don't want to hurt the interpreters by arguing over one another, but I really just want to know clearly, are there any discussions about addressing the issue of data, which is such a major problem?Department of Veterans AffairsInformation collectionPerformance managementSupplementary estimates (B) 2022-2023LawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you. I will assume, then, that the next time we see an Auditor General's report there will be a substantive change. I will wait for that. I just want to come back to this one part, though, which is the fact that from 2019 to 2020 there was 8% lapsed, almost 9% lapsed, spending for Veterans Affairs, and between 2020 and 2021 it was 11.6%. Just to give people a sense of that, it's over $630 million that was there in the department and not spent. There obviously seem to be resources there. I'm just wondering why these resources were not used to address the data concern. I figure you'd probably be able to get a pretty good system with that kind of money. I also want to recognize, and I'm going to give you a very short time to answer this, that still with the marriage after 60, which you all know I'm going to continue to fight forever because I think it is absolutely wrong that a veteran who finds someone who loves them and will care for them in their aging years has nothing to leave for their survivor.... We know that in terms of the funds for this veterans survivor fund, there's still nothing going to survivors.When there are those kinds of resources, why aren't we seeing them, one, invested in data so those systems are fixed so the veterans have transparency and we know where the problem is, and two, invested so that people, survivors of veterans, who have cared for and loved veterans, for very many years in some cases, actually get a little bit of support instead of living in destitute poverty?Department of Veterans AffairsInformation collectionSupplementary estimates (B) 2022-2023Survivor pensionsPaulLedwellLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Okay, thank you for that. I hear the answer to that question.My last question is this. I would like to have an explanation about why VAC is the only federal department whose main office is not in Ottawa. Why is that the case? What is the impact of that?Department of Veterans AffairsGovernment facilitiesSupplementary estimates (B) 2022-2023LawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1620)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I want to thank all of the witnesses for all that you do for veterans. I really appreciate it.Of course, Ms. Hughes, I'd like to acknowledge your service to our country. I deeply respect that service.I would like to first come to Ms. Morand, if I can. I appreciate your testimony. I'm just trying to get the timeline a little bit clearer for myself. What I understand is that the first step was that you were asked to provide an expression of interest, which you did. Can you tell us about when that was?Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaPatriciaMorand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1620)[English]You still haven't completed filling out the form, is that correct? Is that because there's no room to put “OT” or “CCM" in?Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransPatriciaMorandPatriciaMorand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1620)[English]You asked that question. Did they respond to it?Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransPatriciaMorandPatriciaMorand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1620)[English]You didn't receive an answer.Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransPatriciaMorandPatriciaMorand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1620)[English]You've been providing these services for over 20 years. I would guess, after 20 years, that you have a pretty comprehensive understanding of how to work with veterans. I think Mr. Maxwell talked about this earlier—that cultural knowledge. When you do it for a long time, you definitely develop that, I would assume. We don't know whether you're going to be on that list, as a provider, because you're not getting answers back from VAC.Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransPatriciaMorandPatriciaMorand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1620)[English]I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I think that's very interesting. I've done a bit of research and had some conversations. I heard from a couple of service providers who are very concerned, because, of course—please correct me if I'm wrong—the process that was in place was this: The provider goes directly to Blue Cross, bills, then gets reimbursed.Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransPatriciaMorandPatriciaMorand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1620)[English]We're hearing that, in the new process, service providers will go to PCVRS, and they will be billing VAC, so the timeline gets longer. Until they get the money from VAC, the service provider doesn't get the amount. We're hearing that what used to be a $195 fee.... They are now only willing to pay $160, for example. We are hearing that.That is one of the questions you said you wanted answered, I believe. Am I correct? It's knowing what that fee structure will look like. Are you worried about the money, or the timeline for getting that money, as a private person, or—FeesGovernment contractsGovernment servicesVeteransPatriciaMorandPatriciaMorand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1625)[English]That's so reasonable. If you're going to be doing that service, you need to be compensated, so you can do it well. I think that's completely fair.FeesGovernment contractsGovernment servicesVeteransPatriciaMorandPatriciaMorand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1625)[English] I have one last question for you. Currently you just work with the case manager. This model would mean that the case manager was working with another person from the provider, so it would be like you're working with two people. As a provider, do you have any concerns about adding extra people?Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransPatriciaMorandPatriciaMorand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1625)[English]Thank you. I appreciate it so much. My time is up.PatriciaMorandPatriciaMorand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1640)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Perhaps I can begin with you, Mr. Maxwell. You know, I always err on the side of caution and listen to the voices of the people who do the work and to the people who receive the service. That's the workers and the veterans in this case. We have heard very clear testimony that this new structure will cost 25% more than the current structure we have in place. We also know that VAC has had continuous challenges because they've been hiring people temporarily instead of permanently. Of course, that means higher levels of turnover, with new people coming in and getting trained. It takes a lot of time, as you said, to train people to work with veterans. I really appreciated what you said just moments ago, that we have “one chance” with this population. I think that has to be absolutely our perspective and our main focus.I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on whether it would be beneficial to take some of that 25% more that's going to be added into this and that's going to cost that much more and invest in staff to be permanent and have that cultural training that you were speaking of earlier.Department of Veterans AffairsGovernment servicesStaffingVeteransWork-based trainingEmmanuelDubourgBourassaScottMaxwell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1640)[English]Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. That was a great answer.ScottMaxwellEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Thank you, Chair.I want to thank all of you for your service, for your commitment to our country, and for coming here to speak to us today. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by what I've just heard. I want to extend my deepest apologies. I'm in shock. I thank you for bringing forward this reality. Mr. Moncur said something that I've heard from far too many veterans, which is the sense or experience of going to get help from Veterans Affairs and often feeling more like you're arguing with an insurance company than actually working with people who want to see the best for you. I also heard very clearly from testimony that case managers are often the only people you interact with in your role as veterans trying to get help who seem to care. Could you talk about, first of all, why the relationship with the case manager is so important, and if you have any concerns? We know that when it moves, and it has on the 29th, to PCVRS, not only will you have a case manager but veterans will also be assigned rehab service specialists. I'm a little confused about how that relationship is going to work. I know that you don't know how that relationship is going to work at this point, but if I could start with you, Mr. Banks, and then we'll move over. Do you have any concerns about these two roles you have to now work with? Could you talk about why case managers matter?Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaChristopherBanks//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Thank you.Go ahead, Ms. Gauthier.ChristopherBanksChristineGauthier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Thank you.Go ahead, Mr. Moncur.ChristineGauthierBruceMoncur//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Thank you.I only have a minute left, so I'm going to come back to you, Mr. Banks, one more time. I apologize for that.One of the things that I thought was really important... your whole story was incredibly important, and I thank you for sharing it.I really hope all of you have support after this, because coming out and sharing these really personal stories is such a dedication to serving all veterans. I really, deeply appreciate it.You talked about your psychologist doing the work to advocate for you, but also to reach out to PCVRS to try to get more information. I'm wondering if you could talk a bit about whether you've heard anything updated. Have they reached out? The last service provider talked about doing an expression of interest.Has any of that been done, to your knowledge, with the person who's serving you so well?Government contractsGovernment servicesVeteransBruceMoncurChristopherBanks//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Thank you.I believe that's my time.ChristopherBanksEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1900)[English]Thank you, Chair. I appreciate you getting my name correct that time.The Chair: You're welcome.Ms. Rachel Blaney: I want to thank all of you for being here today. I appreciate your time and your testimony.We know that Canada pursues an official engagement with Taiwan in accordance with its one China policy, as you spoke of earlier. Are there any discussions at Global Affairs or in the government that you are aware of that would review or amend the one China policy?ChinaForeign policyIndo-Pacific regionInternational relationsTaiwanKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsPaulThoppil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1900)[English]It's interesting that you talked about some of the ways that we can expand as Canada in deepening the engagement with Taiwan and the actors in Taiwanese society. You mentioned a few of those, but I'm just wondering if you could talk a bit about how you think Canada can deepen its economic ties with Taiwan.ChinaInternational relationsInvestmentTaiwanPaulThoppilPaulThoppil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1905)[English]Thank you for that.I'm curious to know if you could speak a bit about the implications of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and what that means for Taiwan.ChinaInternational relationsRussiaTaiwanUkraineWarPaulThoppilPaulThoppil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1905)[English]Thank you.I only have a few seconds left. I'm going to let them go so that I can ask another question later.Thank you.WeldonEppKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1920)[English]Thank you, Chair.I know the Indo-Pacific strategy outlines five pillars or objectives. Can you please expand on what promoting peace, resilience and security looks like in Taiwan? Furthermore, what role, if any at all, should NATO have in preventing tensions between great powers from escalating into armed conflict in the Indo-Pacific?ChinaDefence alliancesIndo-Pacific regionInternational relationsNorth Atlantic Treaty OrganizationTaiwanKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsPaulThoppil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Thank you.PaulThoppilKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1930)[English]Well, Chair, I have one only question, so we'll see how long it takes. We know that Taiwan is a champion of the UN sustainable development goals. Can you share with us in what ways Canada can learn from Taiwan and collaborate moving forward to ensure that Canada delivers on its development commitments? ChinaInternational relationsSustainable developmentTaiwanKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsWeldonEpp//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1600)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.Through you, Mr. Chair, I want to express my feeling of frustration right now. The last time the minister was here with his crew, we were told that there were two incidents. Now we're hearing that there are four and there may be five. It's getting really concerning.I think the other thing that is important in this context is that there is no way the Department of Veterans Affairs could assist anyone in any way around MAID. That is something that is clearly not in the legislation. At the same time, veterans should not be calling and asking for help and being offered this as something that they can select. That's what's very concerning to me right here in this situation.One of the things I keep coming back to is the fact that, from what I understand from the last testimony on October 20, when veterans call into the call centre and have conversations, those are recorded, yet if a caseworker calls the veteran, then those are not recorded. When I hear how much confusion there is about what happened, it seems to me that if there was a recording that was kept confidential, and if veterans were made aware of it, then it would allow for the department to actually address this issue in a more meaningful way. Could I just get clarity from you, Minister? I appreciate your being here today. I also want to publicly express my condolences for your loss not too long ago.Can we get some clarification? Is this being explored so that we can protect veterans, so that when this sort of incident happens there is a process in place that allows us to get down to the facts so we can protect the veterans who, hopefully, we are all here to serve?Medical assistance in dyingSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1600)[English]I agree with you, Minister. I think most of the workers are incredible. I think we both agree on that. Medical assistance in dyingVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1600)[English]However, to me, the point is that the department records some conversations, but not all conversations. This is what we heard in the last testimony, that it's about confidentiality. You're recording some of those. Why are those conversations less confidential than other conversations? It doesn't make any sense. Could I ask you to focus on this? Are there any discussions happening about making sure there are recordings, so that, if something like this happens again, you can identify who the person is? You could go back and find that out, so there could be a higher level of accountability. It also protects veterans.I think of Immigration. Every single call that comes into Immigration is recorded. Those are very confidential conversations and, often, very personal conversations. I'm not really understanding the difference. This is about protecting veterans. Are there any conversations happening within the department to consider this, or to give the veterans the ability to say, “Yes, I want this recorded” or “No, I don't”? We're hearing so much right now. It's not clear, and it doesn't feel as if the department knows what's happening, either.Medical assistance in dyingSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Thank you, Minister. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I only have a few minutes.Medical assistance in dyingVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]If it comes in through the call centre, it's referred directly to a case manager, just like that, from my understanding. That is recorded. Medical assistance in dyingSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Unless there is something I don't understand.... If it comes through the call centre and it's forwarded to the case manager, that call continues to be recorded. However, if a case manager.... I need clarification. I see Mr. Ledwell shaking his head. That's what I'm trying to ask. I need that clarified. If I could get an answer for that, it would be appreciated.Medical assistance in dyingSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Are there no discussions about changing that, at this time, Minister? That is through you, Mr. Chair. I apologize. There are no conversations about changing that. Is that correct?Medical assistance in dyingSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1605)[English]Okay. Well, thank you for that. The next thing I want to come back to is training. We heard, on the 20th, that all workers are trained. I think you said 75% of them are trained, at this point. I wonder if I can get clarification. Are all staff trained, or are only 75% trained?Medical assistance in dyingVeteransWork-based trainingLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1620)[English]Thank you again, Chair.I would just come back to the training. I understand, based on what we were sent earlier today about the self-directed learning, that this is mandatory training. I see it here, around suicide awareness and so on. They are all self-directed. How does the accountability work for this? I see that on the form it says to fill out this tracking form. How is that assessed? I'm a little concerned here. That's my first question: Is there a way to track how that's taken care of?The second question I have is about the particular staff member who was offering MAID as if it was an option, which is still so concerning to me because we all know that within the legislation in this country, that doesn't even make any sense. Has that member taken this training?Medical assistance in dyingVeteransWork-based trainingEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1620)[English]Are you referring to Mr. Harris?Medical assistance in dyingVeteransPaulLedwellPaulLedwell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1620)[English]Okay.The training is self-directed and they sort of just sign in. There isn't really a fulsome understanding of whether they took the training and how they took that training in. That, I think, is another question.I see my time is up.StevenHarrisEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English]Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that. My first question will be for Mr. Harris. This is from my understanding. Is it true that some case managers have actually been disciplined because they've given out their direct phone line to the veteran so that the veteran doesn't have to go through the call centre, and that often their reason for giving them the number is to avoid the veterans being triggered and having to retell their story to an agent at the call centre? I'm just trying to clarify whether there's disciplinary action and why that's the case when case managers give out their direct desk phone line to veterans.Disciplinary measuresMedical assistance in dyingPublic Service and public servantsTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English]Am I to understand, then, that if a member goes on leave for whatever reason, their voice mail wouldn't regularly be checked in their absence?Medical assistance in dyingTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English]Thank you.Since recordings are not currently used, which, again, I think is a massive concern, when you call and it does say that it's going to be recorded, it often says that this is for “quality assurance”. If calls are not recorded for some sort of internal quality assurance control, what is the process? What I'm hearing right now is that the only quality assurance that's done is through the calls that come into the call centre. How do you know that services are being delivered in the best way if there's no recording?Medical assistance in dyingQuality controlSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English]I understand that. I'm talking about the case managers.Medical assistance in dyingQuality controlSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1700)[English] I think I got it. Thank you, Mr. Harris. I appreciate that. I understand that. Thank you to the chair for his patience with me. My next question is, how does quality assurance happen? I'm going to switch that up a little bit. How does the department, in terms of quality assurance, measure the training that is self-directed, that you do individually online? How do you measure whether that information has been absorbed by the member or the case manager? How does the department know that the person has understood it and is taking that training?I remember that on October 20, I asked specifically about training for people dealing with members of the public who have experienced trauma. Trauma-informed services are really important, especially for veterans. Quite frankly, from what we're hearing, somebody really fell off and was not doing what they should have been doing.How does the department know that the information from this training...? Let's look at it. How long is this training on suicide? It's an hour and a half. How do we know that it's been absorbed and is being used when there is no form of quality assurance that occurred, even if it's once in a while recorded?The second part of that is, is there any way for a veteran to say, “I want this conversation recorded”?Medical assistance in dyingQuality controlSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransWork-based trainingStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1705)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1715)[English]Mr. Chair, I'm going to interrupt Mr. Richards.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1715)[English]I can't hear him. I can't hear Blake. I don't know about other members, but I can't hear him at all.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1715)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. I do support this. It sounds like some other things happened while I was away, and I don't know if we're supposed to talk about them in this venue since it is a public venue. When we bring up things that happen in camera, I would think that we would be breaking the in camera conversation. I just want to point that out.I also want to say that things change because issues arise that we need to deal with. Obviously, this is an issue that is incredibly important, and actually hearing from a veteran who had the experience I think will significantly help the committee. I agree with the one hour. We should be mindful of that and perhaps offer that to the veteran. I don't want to put a veteran up for two hours and feel that we're really grilling him over something that is probably upsetting. If one hour fits and that works, then I am absolutely in support of it.Committee businessMedical assistance in dyingVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.Mr. Harris, I really appreciated your answers last time around, so I think I'll come back to you for a second.For my first question, is it possible for you to table with the committee the system of performance review—absolutely not details, but just what the methodology looks like—so that we can better understand it?Medical assistance in dyingPerformance managementVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Thank you.When these performance reviews are done, are veterans ever a source of the performance reviews? What does that process look like, if that is so?Medical assistance in dyingPerformance managementVeteransStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English] If a veteran has a case manager and feels concerned about something, do they have a clear process? Could what that process looks like and how that complaint is followed up also be shared? That would be extremely helpful for the committee.ComplaintsMedical assistance in dyingVeteransStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1730)[English]Thank you. That's really helpful. For me, what's really important is that we don't want this to happen again. The best way to do that, of course, is to see systems become stronger, so I think that would be very helpful for the committee.The last question I have is just a repeat from last time, which I didn't get answered. If a veteran asks for a conversation to be recorded, is there any method of doing that?Medical assistance in dyingSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1735)[English]Thank you for that.Thank you, Chair.StevenHarrisEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1145)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I want to remind all members that I was one of the people who signed this ask for an emergency discussion. I really appreciate our differing opinions. I think it's always important to have space for that. I just want to recognize that.I also want to mention that we should not be heckling in committee. It really disturbs me. This is about having civility. These are hard issues that we're facing and we should disagree—that's important for democracy—but how we disagree is important. I just wanted to put in my two cents on that.The reason I signed on to have an emergency meeting is the fact that this recently come out. I think it behooves us all to take it seriously. We've heard testimony in the last couple of weeks on something that matters a lot to me, which is that there really aren't good strategies around supporting rural and remote communities to make sure they are not getting intense disinformation. That it is directly linked to having strong local media. We heard very clearly that indigenous and ethnic communities across this country do not necessarily have a strategy. We need to pick up on some of these things.We cannot have interference at this level. We know it's becoming more realistic and we know that it is happening more frequently, so it makes sense to me that our committee would push this study out a bit to have a further specific discussion about what is happening with China. We've heard that the Prime Minister has been briefed on this. We need to see what's happening at our level as well.I do have a few concerns with this motion. I would like to talk about them. Hopefully, Mr. Cooper can respond to some of them once he is on the list again.I am a little concerned that we're getting ahead of ourselves. There are too many witnesses, and it's not giving our committee leeway to focus on revelations. I am supportive of having witnesses at the committee from paragraphs (c) to (f). I think that makes a lot of sense. I would like to hear from them and then decide on the next witnesses we should have. Usually our process is to have parties put forward witness names. I'm not saying these folks shouldn't come, but I don't want us to limit ourselves to this and then we are not able to respond meaningfully to any revelations or things that we learn.I also think it is important that when the subcommittee meets tomorrow, we look at what the plan is moving forward. We know that we have just a few weeks left in the House. A few reports are still on the table. I have concerns with paragraph (b). I think it should be a priority for the committee, but I think it would be best if the subcommittee met, went over the schedule and brought something forward for the whole committee. As we all know in this circle, the subcommittee does that work and the whole committee agrees moving forward. I think that would be the best step to take. I'm not proposing anything particular here because I would like to have feedback before I do that.I'm also concerned about the one week. It doesn't sound feasible. When I look at the production of papers, it usually takes quite a bit longer—up to 30 days. I don't want to put undue stress on the people who work so hard for us. Perhaps they can't get that done, and I think we should have a discussion about it.The other thing is that it's really important that we protect potential whistle-blowers and the people who are coming forward. I think it's worth having a discussion about where this belongs. Does it belong in this committee? Is that going to be the best place for it? Should it go to NSICOP? I don't have a decision made on that, but I think it's an important thing. We do not want information getting out into the public realm that is going to put our elections more at risk. I need to have some assurances on the process. Maybe we need to discuss that more fulsomely.Those are just some of the thoughts I have. I hope we can figure this out together because these are really important issues. Canadians need to trust in our systems. I hope that all of us have that commitment as we're having these discussions.We also know that this is the role of our committee. Our committee is really meant to focus on the procedures to make sure that they're clear for Canadians and that Canadians have trust in them. As we look at this, I think it's important we stay within our lane. If we think more work needs to be done on some of these issues, then we may need to discuss whether this needs to go to the Canada-China committee.I want to hear thoughts from Mr. Cooper on this. That's all I have at this time.ChinaCommittee businessFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesMotionsSecurity intelligenceBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]In light of that, I will be brief.I don't have any subamendments to make. We'll just leave this as it is. I do think we should vote for this separately, though. It sounds to me like there's a very clear message that we have three different parts. That's something I would like to provide feedback on.I also want to say that I am concerned about information coming through our committee that could harm us in the future in terms of elections. I'm still not 100% convinced that this is the right place to do this. It should perhaps be done at NSICOP. I'll leave that for people to determine.I also want to say that regardless of how we vote on this, there has to be some honesty from the ministers coming before us. If we don't hear it at this table when they're sitting in front of us, I think we'll have some other discussions that might be a bit harder. I want to hopefully have the Liberals share with their ministers that we want to know what is happening. We need to have some level of transparency so that our constituents understand what's happening. We cannot lose faith in our systems. If there's a problem with our systems, we must fix it immediately.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1310)[English]Thank you. I apologize to my colleague. I was just trying to get the chair's attention. I wasn't trying to disrupt him.My perspective is that we just need to call this to a vote. I heard very clearly that we have only a few weeks left. We need to get on this study. We need to make sure that it's done. I just hope you will call the vote so we can get this done.Tomorrow our subcommittee can meet with a good strategy to make sure this study is a priority.Committee businessBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1325)[English]I think the priority is the list we had today.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1230)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Thank you to both of the witnesses for your testimony today.I'm going to start my questioning with Mr. Kolga.In one of your responses to a question, you said very clearly that Russia never sleeps. I thought that was an important thing to pick up on. We know that Russia never sleeps and that it is constantly looking at ways to create destabilized realities within other countries. I think all of us are concerned.Really, this study is about two things: ensuring that Canadians have confidence in our electoral process and systems and ensuring that we have the best protection from any foreign threats. We know that the more disinformation gets out there, the less Canadians believe in the systems we have. They're winning, and we can't let that happen.I'm just wondering if you could talk about the fact that Russia never sleeps and how, not only during elections but also outside of those and even pre-election, that is a problem.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesRussiaBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMarcusKolga//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]I think that's really interesting. I think of the convoy that was outside and how many people were yelling about fake news. I saw reporters right in front saying things like, “Say whatever you like. We're totally open. You're on live television.” People were just losing that connection with the understanding of our reality.My next question is really around targeting marginalized groups. I think of myself; I represent rural and remote communities. I'm just curious about the strategies that could be used against more remote communities, marginalized communities, indigenous communities and ethnic groups. I think those would be specific and targeted. I'm just curious whether you have any feedback on that.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesSocial marginalityMarcusKolgaMarcusKolga//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I have one question for Mr. Kolga. I want to come back to the question I asked earlier about rural and remote communities, indigenous, ethnic groups, and marginalized groups. You spoke a lot about small, local, community media and how important it is to have those sustainable systems in place so they can provide information in a trusted way and that they're trusted resources. I also know a lot of these communities use social media as a function of connection in the community.Could you talk about the threats that could be targeted to those particular groups? I think they're unique and I think that in some ways, if somebody got into that system, trust could be built very quickly. I'm worried about that disinformation, especially recognizing that due to language and remoteness fighting that disinformation could be even more difficult.Ethnic and cultural communitiesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesSocial networking sitesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMarcusKolga//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Do you want to add something, Mr. Judd?MarcusKolgaJimJudd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1125)[English] Thank you.I want to thank all of our witnesses here today. It's always important for us to talk about our election process and what we're doing to make sure we're protecting it from foreign threats.One of the biggest hurdles is one that all of us as elected officials, and those in trusted positions such as yours, know, and that is getting people to trust the system. That's becoming increasingly hard with so much misinformation. We've seen recently, of course, what happened in the U.S., which was really a deliberate attempt to undermine the electoral system and make something that was concrete seem like it wasn't. That was very concerning. I know all of us are watching that and watching the outcomes of what happens when foreign entities abuse misinformation.To both of you, through the chair, how can we ensure that accurate, reliable information is shared here in Canada so that misinformation isn't taken advantage of by foreign entities? Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Just to go back to that idea, I guess I'm curious about methods that are being looked at in terms of reporting on which communities are the most vulnerable. What I mean by that, for example, is that indigenous communities, where there is often a sense of distrust already, could be more vulnerable to misinformation around how to vote and what the process is. We also know that new Canadians may not be able to access information through English and French. The other part I would add is that I think rural communities can be under a particular level of concern. Because of their remoteness, often they don't have access to information as readily as other people.In the work that is being done, how are those communities being considered around those particular vulnerabilities, especially in this area of foreign threats? There is a unique situation there that needs to be addressed. I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Ethnic and cultural communitiesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationCarolineSimardStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Thank you.We know that election interference is not just a Canadian problem, so I'm wondering from what other jurisdictions Elections Canada is learning lessons about protecting the integrity of elections, and what lessons are being learned.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesCarolineSimardStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.My last question for both of you is really on the pre-election period. We're hearing a lot more about the due diligence that needs to be done in the pre-election period. We can't ever overestimate how foreign influence will come through the process.I'm just wondering if you could talk a little about what would be more beneficial around the pre-election period in terms of the services you provide and how they could assist us in building Canadians' trust in the systems we have here for our elections.Thank you.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English] My time is wrapping up, but I will say again that it is by interacting with our systems that we build trust, so I think it is important for the pre-election component.Thank you.Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesCarolineSimardBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. Of course, I thank the folks who are here testifying. I really appreciate the work you do. I'm learning a lot today.As we're having this discussion, I can't help but reflect on how important it is that voters and institutions be protected from any threat to democracy, and how important it is to continue that work. I thank you for being part of it. I will come to Ms. Tayyeb first and go to Ms. Tessier if she has anything to add. In a July 2021 update on threats to democracy, the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security wrote that between 2015 and 2020, cyber-threat activity was directed at voters more often than at political parties in elections. Based on that information, how do you think an everyday Canadian should understand this? We're hearing that these threats are becoming more and more sophisticated. What sorts of actions should voters take to ensure that they are viewing correct information about democracy in Canada?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooAliaTayyeb//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English] I appreciate that, but I also represent in my riding a lot of rural and remote communities that often have limited access to services. I'm just curious if there are any particular strategies or recommendations that you're providing for different community groups—rural communities, remote communities that have limited access to connectivity—or looking at different groups across our country that are more marginalized. I'm just wondering if there are specific strategies or recommendations around that, especially in terms of promoting democracy. We know that sometimes these groups are the groups that don't participate in democracy as often or as fulsomely. I'm just curious about that process.Ethnic and cultural communitiesFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationAliaTayyebAliaTayyeb//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]My next question is that, of course, when we look at this process, there has to be a balance between what we expect voters to do to inform themselves and understand and how government should ensure that accurate information is available to the public. How do you envision this task being balanced between the two?Federal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationAliaTayyebMichelleTessier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Thank you. I have only a couple of seconds, so I will cede those.AliaTayyebBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you. I'm going to leave this question open to both of you. I'll just let you decide who answers. I'm seeing an increase of misinformation on social media, and it just continues to grow and grow. There's no longer that debate about different opinions or perspectives; it's more about debating the facts of reality, which I find really scary and concerning. We know there are reporting structures on social media sites. Twitter and Facebook, of course, are at the front line of complaints around this right now.Can companies that profit from engagement effectively stop the spread of disinformation? How do we make sure, in this country, that misinformation isn't being impacted by foreign interference, especially in terms of our elections?Communication controlFederal electionsForeign influenced activitiesInformation disseminationSocial networking sitesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooAliaTayyeb//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1300)[English]Is it Thursday or Tuesday when we return?BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1125)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the folks who are here providing testimony for us. I will first go through the chair to Ms. Henderson. You said earlier that our threat level—I think I got this right—at this point, today, is at a medium. If that's the case, I'm just wondering if you could tell us what the threat was between January 22 and 29 and then from January 29 until the convoy was removed.Federal jurisdictionNational securityParliamentary precinctSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooCherieHenderson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1125)[English]That's interesting to me. Is there a measurement for internal threats and then a measurement for external threats, or are those two things combined?Federal jurisdictionNational securityParliamentary precinctSecurityCherieHendersonCherieHenderson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Thank you. That's helpful. You've answered my question.We have heard, of course, that there are multiple jurisdictions, specifically around Parliament, and that sometimes figuring out who is in charge of what and when feels like a bit of a challenge. I'm just wondering, from the perspective of your department, if it would be easier to deal with future events on this scale if they ever happen again? Having the jurisdiction expanded, would that make any significant difference in your ability to do your work?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityCherieHendersonNewtonShortliffe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]On the other side of that, are there any concerns from your perspective with expanding the jurisdiction?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityNewtonShortliffeNewtonShortliffe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Thank you. I've also heard testimony from this department today that threats across Canada are constantly assessed. If you're telling me that the threat level stayed at medium when we were watching people come across the country to disrupt our place of governance, I'm just wondering if there is any other way that you measure this, because it seems to me that this was not addressed as well as it could have been. It didn't seem that the threat was taken very seriously until we were in a position where it was really hard to deal with it. I'm just wondering if you could talk about that. How is the assessment of threat made, and how does that work with the folks you work with in other departments?Federal jurisdictionNational securityParliamentary precinctProtestsSecurityNewtonShortliffeCherieHenderson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English] Thank you.CherieHendersonBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I want to come back to one of the questions from Ms. Romanado around the security of the trucks. That was a significant concern. We have heard testimony that the RCMP did not have the technology required to determine what was in those trucks.I understand you can't tell us everything, but I feel like there's a pretty significant gap there. Is there any way we can do better? Do you have any recommendations around that? Do you have any way to have intelligence on this issue? You don't have to talk specifically, but I'm concerned in the long term that if there isn't a process to make sure we can assess this, it provides a risk that we are now proclaiming to everyone, because this is on the public record.Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooCherieHenderson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English] Just quickly, what I heard is that your concern really focuses around lone actors who could provide violent outcomes, and that is directly linked with extremist groups. I just want to make sure that's clear.ExtremismFederal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityCherieHendersonCherieHenderson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank the witnesses for all of the testimony we've heard and for spending this hour with us. My first question will be for Mr. Brookson. Living through this, I kept walking through that convoy every day and thinking, “Why are we here?” I don't understand, and I'm wondering what information the PPS received from the OPS prior to January 29. What input was there? I'm still confused, when I look back, that all of those trucks were blocking our place of governance for the whole of Canada.Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctProtestsSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Okay. I'll leave it at that.As we're having this discussion, I want to make sure citizens are well aware, because we know there are people living in the area where we're talking about expanding the jurisdiction. To clarify and put on the record, if it was turned into federal jurisdiction, which would really allow for a lot more security for this place—you've made that very clear, Mr. Brookson, through testimony—would there be any interruption for citizens? If they were in trouble and they had to call 911, would that just continue as is?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctPolice servicesSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Thank you.Through the chair, Mr. Brookson talked about the accessibility still. We have blockades up. I appreciate that I can get across that street a lot more easily when I'm going to different meetings that I have to attend, but I still see people driving through and I often think that I don't think they should be doing that. Of course, they are doing that.I will first come to you, and then I will come back to the deputy chief to ask a question about that. If the jurisdiction was expanded, what kinds of changes would be there to provide more security for that space? How would we monitor it? What capacity would the PPS have to monitor that? If somebody drove on or came onto that space thinking they were going to take a shortcut, what powers would that department have?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctParliamentary Protective ServiceSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English] Thank you. I appreciate that.I'll go to the deputy chief on this one. Again, this is something I have noticed. I wouldn't know if a vehicle was authorized or unauthorized. Right now, in this interesting stance that we are in, what are the police doing around monitoring that on Wellington Street?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctPolice servicesSecurityLarryBrooksonTrishFerguson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Thank you.Through the chair to the deputy chief, one of the things I heard in the testimony very clearly was that the police are stressed and there's a concern, it seems to me, around human resources and not having the people to do the work, because the police have experienced a lot of challenges. I'm wondering if you could expand on what that means for us in this place.Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctPolice servicesSecurityTrishFergusonTrishFerguson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate this. These are interesting conversations we're having today. I'm going to come back to you, Mr. Brookson. I have a lot of questions.We've heard proposed here some discussions about potentially increasing public transit along Wellington and finding ways to do that. When we talk about how concerned you are with the lack of capacity to block people, are there any concerns around public transit going through that space?Federal jurisdictionLand useParliamentary precinctPublic transitSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Through you, Madam Chair, I think what we're hearing clearly is that this in-between state is really messy. That's just reality. When you're in between one thing and another in life, and you don't know where you're going, things can be problematic.I am going to come back for one more question, Mr. Brookson, to better understand this. Even if the proposed expanded jurisdiction happens and we do see it increase, I understand that it will still continue to be multi-jurisdictional. I don't think that will change profoundly in any way. What will change in terms of safety for this place?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]My last question is to you, Mr. Bédard. You spoke, in your testimony, about some of the things we'll have to do around redefining the parliamentary precinct. I think that's what you said. Could you just explain what that means a bit more, what the process is and how hard or, hopefully, easy that could be?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityLarryBrooksonMichelBédard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1145)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Thank you to all the witnesses, of course, for being here today and for your testimony.I'm going to go first to Ms. Davies.First I want to thank you so much for sending us the information about the translation services. It has been a large concern for us in Canada. I think that figuring out the best practices is so important to protect the workers. Thank you so much for sending that to us.My question for you is really around criteria. We have been having a lot of testimony during the last few weeks on the study of a hybrid parliament and the next steps that we should take. What we're hearing is a general theme of the need for some sort of criteria for who should be able to participate remotely and when.Can you talk to us about any systems put in place around having specific criteria? Is there any particular role in your House that oversees the criteria? If you can give us some thoughts on that, it would be helpful.Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentWorking hours, terms and conditionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooSiwanDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English] It does. That's very helpful. I guess my follow-up question would be this: Is there any method whereby that information is tracked and put out publicly? What I mean is that when you look at our records, for example, you can see how I voted on everything that I did. Is there any tracking methodology that's made available for the public to know if a member is participating remotely or on site in the House? Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentWorking hours, terms and conditionsSiwanDaviesSiwanDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you for that.Perhaps I can come now to Mr. McGill. I understand also that there are no set criteria. Obviously it sounds as though you do have some general ideas of what those might be, but there isn't anything specific.I know you are doing your 12-month pilot project. Are there plans at the other end of that pilot project to look at these particular things, such as criteria?Then, of course, I'll add on the question I just asked about. Is there any method within your system of tracking if people are participating one way or another?Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentWorking hours, terms and conditionsSiwanDaviesDavidMcGill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Of course. Is there any way of tracking if people participate remotely or on site?Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentWorking hours, terms and conditionsDavidMcGillDavidMcGill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1220)[English] Thank you.Through you, Madam Chair, I thank the witness for his testimony today. It was very personal, and I appreciate and honour that. I know that all of us around this table probably have stories of times when we would have really liked to be close to our family to support them through very hard moments. I want to recognize that and hope that you're not offended that you are asked questions as a House leader rather than as a serving MP.We did hear testimony earlier today from the Welsh Parliament that talked about their interpretation. They made it very clear that not only are they seeing the workers really feeling positive about the work they're doing, but that they had just done a well-being survey and, in fact, the interpreters were one of the highest-scoring ones. We know that if we did a similar survey of workers across the board in this place, the interpreters would definitely not have that kind of outcome.What steps are being taken to address this issue in a more profound way? Interpreters are really struggling. We heard last week that an interpreter was sent to the hospital because of acoustic shock. That is seriously concerning to me. I'm not clear if what the House provides is different from what the Senate provides, but I do recognize that the interpreters work in both places.I'm just wondering if you could speak to that challenge we're facing.Government and politicsHearing healthSimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentWorkplace health and safetyBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Thank you. I hope that the priority is the health and well-being of the people who work for us. As a person who only speaks one language, I could not do this job without them. I just want to recognize that and continue to work towards having them report back to this place that they are very happy and healthy in their work, and we're not there yet.I want to come back to this idea that you talked about that I do quite agree with. It's really an MP's right to represent their riding and the voices of their constituents. There are times when you're limited in that capacity. I think back to some of the testimony that we heard, particularly about pregnancy, about people who are pregnant who are not allowed to travel for various health reasons but are still doing quite well. This really opens up the door. I think we've also had discussions about persons living with disabilities and persons who have different challenges, such as a family crisis that keeps them at home when they are still capable of doing their jobs. Even if you have a serious health issue yourself, you still want to bring your voice forward for your constituents.I'm just wondering if you could speak to the ability to have choice during some of the hardest physical times of your life, but when you still have energy to expend for your constituents. I think that members have that responsibility. How does a hybrid Parliament make room for that?Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentWorking hours, terms and conditionsMarkHollandHon.AjaxMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English] Thank you. My questions will be mostly around criteria. There has been a lot of testimony for the past couple of weeks and a lot of discussion about having set criteria around when people participate remotely and when they are on site. Interestingly, we just heard from the Welsh and Scottish Parliaments that they continue to have hybrid. They've decided to leave it open without particular criteria. There is definitely a sense, especially from the Scottish Parliament, that there was some sort of general discussion about what that would look like. I know they're talking about having some sort of way—it doesn't sound like they're clear about it yet—or some oversight to check in and see if the system is still working and if accountability measures continue to be there in a meaningful way. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on criteria and on how that would be implemented in this case.Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentWorking hours, terms and conditionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]The last question I have at this time is really around connectivity. We know that it continues to be a challenge for some of our rural and remote communities. I come from a riding where, if I drive 20 minutes out of town, there is no connectivity at all, and no phone. That is definitely a challenge. I'm wondering if you could speak to that challenge specifically for this country.Broadband Internet servicesGovernment and politicsVirtual ParliamentMarkHollandHon.AjaxMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1145)[English]I want to thank all of our witnesses today. Of course, there's a special thanks to the veterans who served us so well. I'm sad to hear that the return service is not as good.There's a special recognition to you, Mr. Meincke. My grandfather was also in the Princess Patricia, so it's very good to be in this space with you today. One of the things I want to say is that it sounds, Mr. Meincke, like you have a relationship with the veteran who experienced this, and I want to thank you so much for assisting that veteran. I also want to ask you to pass on my thanks to them for being so brave to bring this forward. It's not easy, as you said and outlined very clearly before, to speak up. I want to say thank you, through you, for making sure that this incident didn't go invisible, and for making it seen. I want to pass that on.Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaMarkMeincke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you.I think part of the testimony that we heard very clearly, both in the last one and in this one, is about the importance of having these conversations recorded so that things can be reviewed in a meaningful way. Based on the testimony we heard last week from the department, it was clear to me that if a veteran calls in to get support through the call centre, all of those are recorded. However, if the worker calls from their office directly to the veteran, those calls are not recorded. There seem to be, from the department's perspective, some concerns about privacy, which really don't make sense to me, that a call coming in is less private than a call going out. I'm not sure I understand that analysis.I think what I will do today is ask all of the people who've testified if they have any thoughts about the importance of maintaining recording so that we can test for these kinds of incidents, so that there is some way for accountability, and whether there are any concerns of privacy for the veteran in making sure that these are recorded.I'm going to go in the way in which we started. First I will go to Colonel Conrad.Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransMarkMeinckeJohn D.Conrad//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you. Mr. Meincke is next.John D.ConradMarkMeincke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you so much.Next is Ms. Hughes.MarkMeinckeCarolynHughes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you.Mr. Thorne is next.CarolynHughesOliverThorne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English] Thank you.OliverThorneEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1210)[English]Thank you. I want to come back to just a short summary. Right now, when a call is made to VAC through the call centre, it's recorded. We heard from the department that when it's a call out, it doesn't get recorded; if it's a direct call to a service agent, it's not recorded. I appreciate that what we heard is either that it should be recorded or that there should be some sort of accountability given to the veteran, whether or not the conversation is recorded. I think we heard clearly from the department that neither is done, and I want to thank everybody for clarifying that point. The point that I would like to come back to—and I'm going to start with you, Mr. Meincke—is around the idea of sanctuary trauma. With regard to veterans who are reaching out, I appreciate the multiple levels of testimony that talk about how hard it it is to take that step. I think it is for anyone, but for a person who has served, who has committed to be a protector, it is even harder to take that step.I'm wondering about the impact of going somewhere where you're hopeful you'll get help and then someone not being there for you in the way you need it. What does that mean in terms sanctuary trauma? What do workers need to know about that, so we don't see anything like this ever happening again? Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingMental healthSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaMarkMeincke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I would like to take this opportunity to come back to Colonel Conrad. I'll ask you one question. Then, if we have time left, I'll ask you another one about the civilian provider. I want to go back to the conversation I had earlier with Mr. Meincke about sanctuary trauma. I really appreciate some of the things you've shared today, and I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit about the impact of sanctuary trauma. You indicated earlier that there needs to be more fulsome training, which I hear is something that you're speaking about very clearly. You also talked about the fact that there might need to be help from outside of VAC. Please talk about sanctuary trauma and what kinds of supports you think would be imperative to make sure things like this don't happen again. We obviously hear it's a lot broader than just this incident.Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingService deliveryVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaJohn D.Conrad//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. I agree with this motion. I think we've heard things today that make all of us concerned. It's important for us to be accountable to the veterans who've served us so well and to make sure that we help with that accountability. I also know that the committee requested very clearly in the last meeting that when this work at the department is done, they would send us a report as soon as it is completed. Once that report is completed and sent to the committee, I think we can take the next step in what we want to do, but I don't think we need to wait until then for the minister and the department to come. Hopefully we can allow the chair to see unanimous consent and we can have the minister and the department in quickly. Then, if we have to call them back again because of the report that we receive, that is something we can respectfully do. At the end of the day, this shows all of us coming together to work hard for veterans. I think that's where our focus has to remain. EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1555)[English]Thank you, Chair, as always. Thank you to all the members who are here with us today. I appreciate your taking the time, because this is a very serious incident. I think all of us appreciate deeply the service that the people who serve us in uniform provide for us. We want to make sure that when they need assistance, they get the assistance they require. We don't want, in any way, for that assistance to go sideways. Unfortunately, this is a clear example of it going somewhere that I think none of us are comfortable with. My first questions are, of course, for the minister. Through the chair, Minister, how did you find out about this situation? Was it through the media report or was there a complaint provided from the veteran directly to the minister?Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1555)[English]Thank you so much.Minister, have you had the opportunity to reach out to that veteran and personally apologize for this?Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1555)[English]No. Okay. Thank you for that.LawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1600)[English]I will send out this question and allow all of you to decide who should be the best person to answer it. What I am really curious about is this: Do we have any sense of how long this member worked in the department and what their role was? Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingPublic Service and public servantsVeteransLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1600)[English]It leads to another question for me around training. In the training that is provided to people who work directly with veterans, I would hope there is some sort of assistance with how to address issues of MAID if the veteran brings them forward. That is because this is a very important conversation that should happen only between a person and their health provider.We also know that veterans are often calling in distress. I would imagine that there was a thorough training process for all of those folks, so that when veterans come to them in distress, there is some capacity to address those issues and give them supports and references for where they need to go next.Is there anything you can share with us, or could provide at a later date, around training for folks who work in the department, specifically around addressing the issue of MAID if it is brought forward? On the other part of that training, is there anything that says that a staff member should ever bring forward that idea?Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingVeteransWork-based trainingPaulLedwellLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1600)[English]The supervisor must be given some training on how to address that issue when they are interacting on the other side of responding to a veteran. Could I get some clarity on what that would look like?Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingVeteransWork-based trainingLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1615)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you for the information so far. I think it's helped me clarify some things in my mind.We talked earlier, and my questions were about the training process. I guess my next question is this: Due to this incident, will there be any modifications to the process of training that you're doing? Is there something you're adding to hopefully address this? I also want to know if that training is going to apply to new hires, as well as to people who have been around for a while, obviously.Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingVeteransWork-based trainingEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1620)[English]Thank you. That's very helpful.I'll be going to Mr. Harris on this question. It's very good to see you. I haven't seen you in a while, Mr. Harris. As you know, I always enjoy my time with you. I know that there are privacy rules, so I'm trying to be respectful of them. When you were talking, it sounded to me as though it was the worker who called the veteran. Could you give us anything more concrete about how this interaction happened and if it was engaged in from the veteran or from the worker?Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingSound recording mediaVeteransPaulLedwellStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English]I agree. We have heard clearly from the testimony that they don't know exactly when it's going to be available, so I don't want to put a date on it that they can't fulfill.I thank Luc for bringing this forward. I agree with the timeline that Mr. Richards put forward.Department of Veterans AffairsInquiries and public inquiriesMedical assistance in dyingVeteransBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1635)[English]I'm sorry. Please carry on.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1640)[English]Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Thank you so much for giving me this time.I just wanted to check in with you, Chair, because I think at this point we don't have a first vice-chair. I was just hoping that I could move a motion to nominate Blake Richards as the first vice-chair of this committee.Committee businessDepartment of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1640)[English]I'm happy to nominate Blake Richards.Mr. Blake Richards: You've nominated me twice?Ms. Rachel Blaney: Twice—you owe me, my friend.Voices: Oh, oh!EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English] Thank you so much, Chair.I think it's important that we acknowledge the fact that the department has removed this person from providing direct service. I think that's something we have to respect. There are a lot of things we have to consider, but making sure that the veteran is cared for is obviously a priority. I just want to honour that.I'm coming back to you, Mr. Harris, through the chair, of course. I apologize for my confusion. I'm sure you will clear it up. I'm hearing things, and I just want to clarify. I think you said that this was not a call through the call centre. I think what I heard you say was that the veteran made the call directly to the service agent. From my understanding, there isn't a way to do that. Is there a way to speak directly with a frontline worker, such as a service agent, without going through the call centre? The reason I ask this, of course, is that when you do call in, it's very clear that all conversations are recorded and can be looked at afterward. I think that's what I've heard when I've called in before. I'm wondering if you could clear that up so that I better understand the process of how this connection was made.Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]You're saying that the veteran called in directly and had a direct line to someone. I'm just trying to make sure I got that clear.Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]Thank you so much.To clarify, service agents then have a direct number that they can give out. Is that what you're saying?Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to make sure that it's clear for the record that for a person in this country to receive MAID, they have to meet certain criteria. I don't want there to be any impression leaving this place or this room that people can call in and have a conversation with anybody and then, as as result, have MAID quickly as part of the solution. There are very clear criteria. I just want to make sure that's on the record and that there's not a misunderstanding or misinformation.Coming back to this very important discussion around assuring the best care for our veterans, which I believe everybody in this room is committed to, I hear now from Mr. Ledwell that not all calls are recorded. I'm wondering if there are any discussions happening within the department around this. After having an incident like this, is it something that should be considered? Should all calls be recorded—obviously, with very high confidentiality as part of that—to ensure that if there's an incident that is concerning in any way, shape or form, there's a clear way of checking the pathway and making sure the practice is at a level that we are all comfortable with as Canadians when we serve the people who served us?Department of Veterans AffairsMedical assistance in dyingSound recording mediaTelephone systems and telephonyVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaPaulLedwell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English]Thank you so much, Madam Chair.I thank all the witnesses for being here today. I find this incredibly interesting. It really brings to mind a day that I spent in the riding with a woman named Karen, who invited me to spend the day with her. She lives her life in a wheelchair. She put me in one too, and we rolled around a small part of one of the communities I represent. First of all, I have muscles in my arms and my shoulders that I didn't even know existed until that day. But what was really powerful about that was just looking at all the small things that really excluded her. One of the things she sent me home with that I always carry with me is that when you make things accessible, it's better for everyone, regardless of whether you're able-bodied or not. That really hit home for me. Everything that we can do as human beings to make life more accessible opens doors that we may not know are closed.We have heard here today about the importance of relationship building and the challenges that can be provided if you're not together. I really appreciate what people are saying, that this is not all or nothing. This is about creating a way to include people who might be excluded because of things beyond their control. To all three of you, beginning with Ms. Delhon, how is this going to open doors? What are the codes of conduct or practices we can do that will create opportunities for relationships? I keep hearing about this blockage to relationships. How can we explore how to build relationships even if people participate sometimes virtually? I also want to recognize two things. First, most of our members are sitting in the House. I mean, people look at the camera every day and see people. The majority of our members are already here from every party. The other thing is that when we were totally in virtual Parliament, I found that the decorum went up in some ways. If you were yelling at someone, you had to turn on your mike, and your picture was in front. There isn't the same mentality as when you're in a group yelling. I just want to acknowledge those two things.Specifically, then, do you have recommendations about how we can make relationships if we're virtual, how we include people and how this will make it accessible?Perhaps I could start with you, Ms. Delhon.Government and politicsTeleworkingVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooSabreenaDelhon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Thank you.I'll go to The Honest Talk. Go ahead.SabreenaDelhonJenniferStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English] I'm married to a politician as well, so I have a husband who is rarely home because of his political commitment. One of the biggest challenges when our kids were still young enough that they needed caring for was trying to figure out how to balance that when I had to physically be away.I also want to add—and I think this is what I really would like to hear you talk about—that I represent a rural riding. It's the third-largest in British Columbia, and really, by any standards, it's not that huge. It's just under 60,000 square kilometres. There are many times when I would come home for the weekend and wouldn't get to be with my family because I was landing in a different community, doing all the work that I needed to do in that area and then coming back. I'm wondering if you could speak to the reality of the benefits that it would mean for people if they had at least an opportunity to work virtually if there is high need in their riding and if they have a large riding, because right now we know that flights are getting harder. Some of the ridings across this country.... Last session, I was not able to go home very often. It's much better now, but things happened that made it really hard for me to get home, so I was actually not at home as often, because I couldn't fly until Saturday and would not get there until the afternoon, and then I would have to leave first thing on Sunday morning.I'm wondering if we can talk about the challenges that families experience because of this distance, and how most of the time people are still here, but this allows for those moments in life when you just need to be there because your partner is on an emergency somewhere. I don't have a lot of time left. I'll start with Equal Voice. Government and politicsTeleworkingVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooEleanorFast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]I think this is really about just providing a little more choice, and I think that is really important.Oh, my time is up.The Chair: Go ahead, Ms. Stewart.EleanorFastJenniferStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair. I really appreciate the testimony that we're hearing today. Perhaps I could start with you, Professor Seeber. One of the things that would be helpful, just for clarity, is if you could talk about the difference between the cognitive capacity load effort as opposed to what it means to talk about acoustic shock. Government and politicsHearing healthMental healthTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooKilian G.Seeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Okay, that's fine. I'll ask you a question you can answer, then. I apologize for that.You talked about cognitive load. I'm just wondering if you could talk to us about what is specific to this in interpreting from remote participation as opposed to seeing the person right across from you.Government and politicsMental healthTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentKilian G.SeeberKilian G.Seeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]What safeguards should be put in place to protect interpreters from the problems associated with audio from remote participation?Government and politicsHearing healthSimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentWorkplace health and safetyKilian G.SeeberKilian G.Seeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Yes, it is.Kilian G.SeeberKilian G.Seeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English] Thank you so much for that.I will go now to Professor Fournier, if I could. You said earlier “adapt better”. If you could explain what that means, it would be helpful. Government and politicsSimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentWorkplace health and safetyKilian G.SeeberPhilippeFournier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]You keep referencing research, which is really important. We have a report from the NRC and we have a report that this committee is still waiting to see from the House of Commons administration on the AV system. With respect to that, do you have any comments on those two reports and what their impact is? What is the difference between translation provided in person versus in virtual participation?Government and politicsHearing healthSimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementSound transmissionTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentPhilippeFournierPhilippeFournier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. I really appreciate the testimony today. More importantly, I really appreciate the incredible work that the interpreters do in this House. They are so kind, and they do such a great job of making our voices understandable to people who speak one of the official languages. I am always grateful to them. Personally, they've always been very good to me. I think we have to take what we're hearing today really seriously. I've had many conversations with interpreters, and I hope today that we really do make sure that our recommendations clearly support what interpreters need in order to do their work as effectively as they do it now. I have one last question for you, Professor Seeber. I'm coming back to you again because I'm still trying to wrap my head around this cognitive load. Could you talk about what you've seen from your own experience? Has it become more of a widespread issue or something more impactful because of the pandemic? Is there a direct correlation to this? What can you tell us about that?Thank you. Government and politicsMental healthTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooKilian G.Seeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1140)[English] Thank you, Chair.I want to thank all of the folks who are here to testify.For me, as we go through this, I'm really interested in having concrete discussions about how we can come together on this, because I don't think it is an all-or-nothing. I personally like being here better. I think it's really important. I know since the very beginning that when I would speak and I would hear from other parties that they would have similar issues, we were able to work together. I think that will always be important. I'm very aware of that.I also acknowledge that if people are having severe health challenges or are caring for someone and they cannot leave their home, I don't want to silence that voice. I think it's very important when you are elected that your voice is heard in this place. Things happen. I think of other testimony, and Carol's as well today, where they talked about real health issues that mean you cannot travel—you cannot. Does that mean your voice is silenced for that period of time?Voting is part of it, but that is not all of it. It's also the House work and the committee work. We saw people do tremendous work and make speeches in the House of Commons and their committees virtually, because we have that tool. I'm very hopeful that we can come together and have really concrete discussions about what works well, what our concerns are and how we do this in a way that increases inclusion and doesn't exclude.I'm going to come to you, Ms. Jones. You said you had four main points. I want to give you an opportunity to share those with the committee, since you didn't have enough time in your presentation. Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooYvonneJonesLabrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]I'm sorry. I only have a little bit of time so I just wanted to give the last minute to Carol.You talked about the amount of foot surgery and you don't always know when it's going to happen. I know that's a challenge too.Could you talk a little bit about how this opens up the opportunity for you to participate as an MP?Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentWork life balanceYvonneJonesLabradorCarolHughesAlgoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I'm very grateful to hear from the Speakers today—of course, with special recognition to Speaker Bennett. We spent some time together in Turkey not too long ago, recognizing the incredible sacrifice of Newfoundlanders and the last section of the Trail of the Caribou. I want to thank you for being here. It's good to see you again.I think one of the biggest changes that we could have never expected was COVID-19. We all had to respond to it very rapidly. I'm going to ask both of you the same question. I'm just wondering if you could talk a little bit about the impactful lessons of a hybrid Parliament and committee. What were the best practices that you found? How did it assist in terms of adapting and modernizing the system to deal with the pandemic, but also just to move forward in the future?I will start with Speaker Bennett.Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDerekBennettHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you so much.Speaker Arnott.DerekBennettHon.TedArnottHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English] Thank you for that.I think we're hearing really clearly from most people that there should be some sort of criteria for why people could be away and participate virtually. I think of testimony several days ago from one of the MPs who talked about being pregnant and not being allowed to travel toward the end of her pregnancy, and what a difference it made for her to be able to continue to participate virtually, even though her health concerns made it impossible for her to be here.I'm wondering if either of you have any thoughts on how this tool could be used to create a more inclusive environment, so that people who might be limited in their participation can participate.Our voice in Parliament is a reflection of the people we serve. Making sure that voice is heard...we have to find the ways to do that. When we hit the pandemic, of course, one of the most important parts was how we could hold the government to account and how we could make sure our constituents' voices were heard.I'm wondering, within the work you do, if you could share your thoughts on this. I'll start again with Speaker Bennett.Government and politicsTeleworkingVirtual ParliamentTedArnottHon.DerekBennettHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1605)[English] Thank you, Chair. Just before I start, I also want to wish all the best to our previous clerk. I really appreciate his service to our committee. I'm sad to see him go.I want to thank everybody from the Auditor General's office for their incredible work. I found this report very enlightening. I really appreciate it.My office was just recently contacted by one of the veterans who's a regular with us. He told us that he sent an application in March for a mouthguard, because he's grinding his teeth when he sleeps. He had a request for additional paperwork in June. He uploaded all of that to his My VAC account in July, and then was told he had to wait 33 weeks to get a response to that. I think that's a pretty clear example of what's continuing to happen.One recommendation you brought forward was to provide useful waiting-time information for veterans. I'm just wondering what that means. Because I don't know all of their systems, what things do they need to do to improve that so that veterans get the information and we can see those wait times get shorter? It seems crazy that for something that simple they're waiting that long.Disability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransService standardsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1610)[English]Well, I appreciate your bringing up that idea of data and its importance. I found that really interesting. I've heard this in other ways, that we've tried to figure out issues and it often comes back to the fact that the data and the way it's collected does not provide for an opportunity for us as MPs, or our constituents, to understand. That's incredibly frustrating.You have recommendations on the data. I'm just trying to understand the process. I understand that you said earlier that we have to let them have a bit of time to try to figure that out and implement it, but what is the process? Is there any sort of accountability, so that we can call on the government to address these issues in a more timely fashion as opposed to waiting, perhaps, another seven years?Disability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransService standardsVeteransKarenHoganKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1610)[English]This is so interesting. One thing I'm hearing really clearly is that they may not have that double oversight, where somebody goes through and does quality control and looks at making sure the date wasn't entered as 10 years ago.Disability benefitsDisabled veteransQuality controlReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransVeteransKarenHoganKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1610)[English]Thank you.KarenHoganEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1625)[English]Thank you, Chair.It reminds me of a couple of years ago. The PBO, of course, did a report. One thing it mentioned was that to actually start addressing these things in a meaningful way—the disability backlog, specifically—there would need to be a significant amount of hiring people. Based on how long it was taking to get it done, this was the only way to move forward. One thing that came up was how many people were being hired temporarily. We've heard testimony that because people are being hired temporarily, some of them are finding permanent jobs in other departments within the government, and therefore not staying. We know that it takes a while to train people up to have that full capacity.You mentioned in the report as well that there's no long-term plan on hiring, which we know is a concern for everybody in this country and across the world. We're really struggling to find people. You've mentioned a couple of times the need for permanency and stable funding to provide support to have that permanent workforce. With those two things, is the concern that the temporary people don't have the knowledge that they're going to be able to stay, so they move and it continues with having to retrain people? For the other part of that, is any data being collected by the department to track whether people are being hired on temporarily and then leaving? Is that being captured?Disability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransStaffingVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1630)[English]It makes sense. If it's been seven years since they've met their standard, perhaps that would be essential in moving forward.Disability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransVeteransKarenHoganEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. That was a really great intervention. I was really moved by it. I just wanted to say that. I will also say that the interpreter was phenomenal in interpreting the passion. They did a very good job in English for you, Luc.One of the questions I have is around the RCMP applicants. I appreciated the information you gave, but I noticed that for the RCMP applications, the medical information was that it was 85 days in the 2020–21 fiscal year and 35 days the following year. For the Canadian Armed Forces, it was 67 days and then down to 23 days in those two years. I'm wondering if that directly related to the fact that we were experiencing a pandemic, or if there was any explanation for those significant changes.Disability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English]We also heard that, overall, RCMP veterans are having to wait significantly longer than the rest of the veterans. It sounds as though there's a desire to see a better contract, maybe to have enough staff to support them. I'm wondering if you know what the difference is. Where is that? What I hear again and again is that identifying those bottlenecks is almost impossible. I'm wondering about that.BacklogsDisability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceVeteransKarenHoganKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1655)[English] I just keep thinking about the impact of the bottlenecks here and the impact they have on other areas. I think of the Veterans Review and Appeal Board. I'm just wondering if you have any reflection on where it gets stuck here. How about those other places veterans go to get help? That must delay them in being able to access those resources as well.BacklogsDisability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransVeteransKarenHoganKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1720)[English]You said five, and I'm going to take it. Voices: Oh, oh!Ms. Rachel Blaney: You mentioned the challenges for women, and you talked about the name change. For my first question, was that the only issue you could find, or was there any idea that there might be other challenges for women and other reasons they were waiting longer? Disability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransVeteransWomenEmmanuelDubourgBourassaKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1720)[English] In your time there, do you know how many of the files that were processed were denied? Do you have that number at all?Decision-making processDisability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransVeteransKarenHoganKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1720)[English]That's fine. I just wanted to check.One of the things we keep hearing is.... A lot of veterans organizations have been very clear that they would like to see automatic approval, with a review process after and then a fixing up of the system. This way, veterans get the services immediately, even if it's a baseline and additions may then be added.Do you have any thoughts on that sort of idea—of the process being one of automatic approval and then a review—to make sure veterans get their needs met?Decision-making processDisability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransVeteransKarenHoganKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1725)[English]Chair, I'm sorry to bother you, but it has come to my attention that the documents from StatsCan that we received for the survivor pensions benefit study that we did are not published on the website. The testimony is, but those documents are not.I wonder if we could get that fixed, so that we have that information publicly. I'll leave it to you. Maybe next time, you guys can let me know.Thank you so much.Disability benefitsDisabled veteransReport 2, Processing Disability Benefits for VeteransVeteransKarenHoganEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1140)[English]Thank you so much, Chair, and I will do my best to go through you as we are meant to do. Yes, I am the NDP whip. I have quite a collection and enjoy power, obviously. I do find it really frustrating how people perceive whips. I'd love to talk with you any time about what the job really looks like.One of the things that I note living and working in this place is that there is a by-the-party perspective and assumption of rightness, and there is not always a consideration of curiosity. I would really love to have a meaningful discussion here about what works in terms of virtual parliament. I really appreciate what you said about the design, because there are key things that would make the whole of Parliament better, and this is one way that we could make it accessible for some people.Earlier this week we heard testimony from MPs and former MPs who talked about the challenges they faced and how much having a format like this would have allowed them to take that time and moment in their lives to address that issue. I think it's important that as we talk about this, we talk not only about the humanity of MPs but also about the humanity of our communities. There have been a few times when I've been here and I've really wanted to be at home because there was a crisis in one of my communities. If I had been able to stand with those people, it would have made them feel comfort from a role that is so important to them, so I really hope that we get to a place where we could have consensus, where we talk about what works and what systems might allow us to move forward. I will come to Dr. Thomas and Dr. Rayment. I'll leave it to the two of you to decide. One of the things that you talked about is having the ability to use the hybrid model if you needed it for one reason or another. As the whip, I can tell you that I often know things about my caucus' personal life that I wouldn't share broadly, not because of any dastardly sort of power grab but because I really respect them as human beings. I want you to know that I perceive the whip's role as facilitating humanity in a job that often forgets it.In terms of design, how do you see our being able to have hybridity as an option? How would members use that option, and how would they be accountable to their caucus and to Parliament that it is being used in a useful way?Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooEricaRayment//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Thank you, Chair.I thank all of you for being here. I have a great respect for the interpreters. They make my life a lot easier, and I am very grateful to them.My first questions I'm going to hand over to the International Association of Conference Interpreters. I'll let you decide who should answer. One thing I found interesting today was what you said about the House administration doing some testing. You felt that their testimony was true only for in-person sound, as opposed to remote sound. I'm wondering if you could explain that a little bit more.Government and politicsSimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLindaBallantyne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Okay. Thank you for that. One thing I'm interested in, and you mentioned it earlier, is that freelancers are not putting in safety applications and so on. Are you guys tracking in any way what's happening for freelancers?ContractorsGovernment and politicsSimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementTranslation and interpretation servicesTranslation BureauVirtual ParliamentWorkplace health and safetyJimThompsonLindaBallantyne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you so much. I have only a minute and a bit left. I want to take the opportunity to ask a question of CAPE again. I'll let you decide who wants to answer. I have two questions. First, there was mention of hearing issues. Can you elaborate a bit on what types of issues there are in terms of hearing issues? Second, what do you believe the House administration could do to improve interpreters' working conditions during hybrid or remote meetings?Government and politicsHearing healthTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentWorkplace health and safetyLindaBallantynePauleAntonelli//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1125)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.As always, everything goes through the chair. I want to thank her for constantly reminding us about that. I also want to thank the Speaker for dealing with it with such grace when he was cut off. I appreciate that tremendously.I also want to add my thanks to everyone. Not only were we dealing with the reality of a pandemic and the personal issues we were facing with our own families, but we were also asking all the people here to figure out how to continue to run this government on all levels. I just want to say thank you. I appreciate how trying that must have been on top of everything else and how important it was that we got that work done. I appreciate that.Through the chair, I understand there was an audio system performance review conducted over the summer that was commissioned by the House of Commons administration. Will that be able to be tabled with this committee so that we can review it?Government and politicsSimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Okay. Thank you for that. I will say, though, that I expect that I'll be coming back to this, because we do need to have it before this study ends. If we're going to be making the most educated decisions, we need to have that happen.I know that at the end of the day, the interpreters really paid a high price for transitioning. I think we all recognize that. We know the challenges that we are all facing and the limits that we have to our capacity right now largely because of the hard work of the interpreters. What percentage of interpreters are freelancers right now? In that context, I want to also ask whether, when they are working for our House as freelancers, they have the capacity to file health and safety incident reports. I just want to make sure that when we're hearing about the health and safety incident reports, we're not just hearing from those who are not freelancers; we're hearing from all of the interpreters who are serving us.Government and politicsTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentWorkplace health and safetyStéphanAubéAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]Do we know if, as freelancers, they're able to have a health and safety incident report. Do they submit them?Government and politicsTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentWorkplace health and safetyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingMichelPatrice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]I'll ask them.One of the things that was mentioned here by you, Mr. Speaker—through the chair—is the fact that we could look at addressing what people's experiences are and who should and should not get to participate in setting some sorts of standards. I think that's an interesting idea, but I'm wondering about the implementation.As the whip for the NDP, I know a lot of personal things about my MPs that I would not feel comfortable sharing with other members without their explicit permission. If you're framing it that way, do you have any thoughts or opinions on how that would actually go into implementation? It's one thing to talk about it and it's another thing to implement it.Government and politicsVirtual ParliamentMichelPatriceAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1130)[English]I'm sorry to interrupt, but I only have a few seconds left.Another challenge is I imagine you're updating the systems all the time to service the House better virtually. If we don't have people using it, would you be worried about the supports, processes and updates not being rapid enough?Government and politicsInformation technologyVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]Thank you, Chair. My question, through you, is this: Is how members participate tracked? Do you track who participates virtually compared to who participates...? There's no tracking at all...? Okay. Thanks.One of the things that I'm also curious about is that there was a pilot project of interpreters working remotely. I'm just curious if there were qualification requirements for that and if they were qualified for that by translation bureau standards. I would hope that you would know the difference.Government and politicsTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1145)[English]What I'm trying to understand is, were their qualifications the same, of the same rigour, as what is required for the translation bureau?Government and politicsTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingMichelPatrice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]The same credentials...?Government and politicsTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentMichelPatriceMichelPatrice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Okay. Is there a way that can be verified? I've heard that is not the case, and I just want to make sure that's correct.Government and politicsTranslation and interpretation servicesVirtual ParliamentMichelPatriceStéphanAubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Okay.StéphanAubéStéphanAubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you.StéphanAubéAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]My time is almost up, so I'll concede the last 10 seconds.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair, and, as always, through you, my first question is for Ms. Collins. I really appreciate the information that you shared today about your specific challenges. I want to say how much I appreciate all the speakers sharing, in some cases some incredibly personal stories. I apologize that we're in a situation where we have to force members to show their most vulnerable realities so that we can talk about why it is so important to talk about a hybrid Parliament. One of the things Ms. Collins mentioned was making Parliament more accessible. We know that we still do not have the representation of women within Parliament that we want to see. We've never reached that threshold, and we're all working towards it. I believe every party is committed in different ways and levels. I'm wondering if you can talk about how this really allows you to be able to meet your commitments as a parent and to meet the commitments to your body to carry a child. What does this potentially mean in the future for women who are looking at joining us here in Ottawa?Government and politicsStatus of womenVirtual ParliamentWorking hours, terms and conditionsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLaurelCollinsVictoria//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you for that.One of the other questions that I have for you, Ms. Collins—it's very odd to keep calling you that, but we'll go with it—is how hybrid Parliament is also helpful when you're in Ottawa. I think we forget that we used to not have a voting app, which meant that people who had small children were often not able to be there to read stories to their children and tuck them in at night. We also know that things happen, as was so eloquently said earlier. I think sometimes terrible things happen, but if we're able to step out of a room and vote, it really makes sure that we're able to express what we're hearing from our constituents. I'm wondering if you could talk about that as well.Government and politicsRemote votingVirtual ParliamentLaurelCollinsVictoriaLaurelCollinsVictoria//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you so much.I'll go to you, Mr. Bains, and ask specifically about how having the voting app impacted your ability to address your serious health issues.Government and politicsRemote votingVirtual ParliamentLaurelCollinsVictoriaParmBainsSteveston—Richmond East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.As always, through you, I want to thank both of the witnesses for being here today, and I respect how difficult it is to testify publicly on things that are so important to us. I appreciate all of your hard work on this.If I could come to you first, Mr. Brookson, you talked earlier in one of your answers about the technical gap for knowing what was in the vehicles on Wellington. That was a gap; is it still a gap? If it isn't, where are we in the process of addressing that?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctProtestsSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]In testimony that I heard from the former chief of police here in Ottawa, one of the things that concerned me greatly as a member who walked through it every day was the fact that the whole street in front of Wellington was completely blocked. I asked why there was no attempt to block that street prior to the convoy's arriving. It seemed to me that the former chief of police felt that he did not have the information he needed to make that decision.I'm just wondering if I could get any feedback on whether there was anything known here, and whether any communication happened between the two different facets of this.Federal jurisdictionInformation disseminationParliamentary precinctPolice servicesProtestsSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]During the “freedom convoy”, what were the major areas of concern around security, and how would expanding the precinct help or hinder you in being able to do the work?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]What would largely change if the precinct expanded? It was interesting, again, as a member walking through it. I had a lot of arguments as I walked to work every day, which was not necessarily the best way to experience that, but I also saw a lot of people struggling. What I noted many times were people with mobility issues really having challenges getting through and trying to get places.If we change this, if the precinct expands, how are we going to make sure that people are able to move through it comfortably? The other thing I'll add to it is that there's a lot of discussion about having a pedestrian mall or access to people being able to sell things right in front of the House and having maybe a tram go through. Are any of these being looked at and are there any security concerns that we should be considering in terms of our recommendations to the House?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Another issue that's arisen through some testimony is the fact that sometimes indigenous communities want to come here to do sacred work. Sometimes they want to come here to protest an issue. There was a strong sense that how they were reacted to is very different from how other groups were reacted to.I'm wondering whether there are any discussions internally—we don't need to know the details, but whether they are happening— around how to approach specific groups who may have a different way of protesting that needs to be acknowledged, and recognizing that there may be some racism that we need to face in this place?Equal opportunitiesFederal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctProtestsSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]Madam Chair, as always, through you, I would like to ask one question of both witnesses. I'll leave them to decide who is best to answer it.We've increasingly seen articles about a summer convoy visit, which is concerning, of course. We have some pretty important days, like Canada Day, coming up. I'm wondering if we are prepared for that. Are there any major concerns? What lessons were learned from the previous convoy that prepare this place for the summer one?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctProtestsSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English] This is my last question, since I have time for another one. We heard in Chief Jocko's testimony that there was very serious concern, from her perspective, about how the convoy was treated—in terms of their behaviour, their outright plans to overtake the government, and all the things they said—compared to how indigenous folks have been treated when they are protesting and doing things that are, of course, in no way as disruptive as the convoy.I asked a question earlier about what the plan is. Could you please inform us what the process is to make sure we're working with indigenous people respectfully? Who is part of that consultation? Who is part of gathering the information? How does that relationship work, and is it ongoing or a one-time thing?Federal jurisdictionIndigenous affairsParliamentary precinctSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]What is the complaint process? Is there a specific complaint process for indigenous people who feel they are treated differently and want to come forward? We're hearing it again and again, but I'm hearing responses about how this is not the case. That difference in opinion concerns me. ComplaintsFederal jurisdictionIndigenous affairsParliamentary precinctSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I've noticed in the last few weeks that I'm seeing an increase of vehicles driving between the blocks, and I don't think that they're parliamentary vehicles.I guess my first question is this: Are there any preliminary plans about, if the precinct grows, how those will be blocked off in a safe way that makes sense and is accessible, of course? We're still probably going to have the buses moving through the precinct. That's one part.The other question that I have is this: Is there any information or are there any numbers on what that would mean for staffing? Would we need to increase—and by how much—with the precinct growing?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctRoads and road transportationSecurityStaffingBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Yes, for staffing. If the precinct grows, I would assume that you are going to need more people doing the work that needs to be done. I'm curious about whether there's been any work on what that expansion would look like.Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctRoads and road transportationSecurityStaffingLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Thank you.LarryBrooksonBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Of course, as always, through you, I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here.I have a few questions, and I know we then have to head out to vote.My first question will be for both the City of Ottawa and the STO.I'm from British Columbia. In Vancouver, we saw a lot of business increase downtown when they made it more cycle- and transit-friendly. We know that a lot of businesses in the area were very concerned that their businesses would suffer, but they actually found the reverse.I'm just wondering if the city or STO has done any work or research on the impact on businesses and tourism if the streets are closed to car traffic and on how to move forward with changing that whole energy equation of being so car-centric—which is so important, especially with GHGs—and transitioning to a more friendly way of travelling. I'm just wondering if there's any work that's been done on that.I'll go to the city first.Economic impactFederal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityTransportation infrastructureBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooSteveKanellakos//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Do you have anything to add, STO?SteveKanellakosPatrickLeclerc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Thank you for that, but the other part that is important, as was mentioned by STO earlier, is the idea of security. What we saw profoundly during the convoy was a huge concern about threats to our Parliament, to the very foundation of our democracy in Canada. It sounds like there's an exploration of either going along Wellington or under Sparks Street. What I'm curious about—I'll ask the city first and come back to STO as well—is just what is the analysis process of how to keep people safe, knowing that we're bringing people to the capital, where the foundation of our democracy is. How are we going to ensure that process is as safe as possible and that we don't create risk, both for this place and for the people who would be using that transit?The last question I have—this will go to the city, and then I'll stop talking—is about the fact that we know that parts of Wellington are blocked off right now. I see in this testimony that there's a request to be able to use that space. Are there any major complaints about that space being blocked off right now, bringing forward any concerns for the city or for the people who use transit?Those are my two questions.Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctPublic transitSecurityPatrickLeclercSteveKanellakos//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Can I just add one part? One of the questions I was asking was specifically about security. As you are studying both the tunnel and the tramway, is security for people and the capital an essential part of the study?Federal jurisdictionLight rail transitParliamentary precinctSecuritySteveKanellakosSteveKanellakos//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English] Thank you so much, Madam Chair.As always, through you, I'll be happy to ask the professor some questions. I appreciated his presentation today.One of the things I spend a lot of time considering and have heard from many indigenous leaders across Canada is the fact that our democracy was very much built on, and continues to be built on, a colonial practice that often silences the voices of the first people of this land. When we talk about fairness and when we talk about looking at democracy in a new way, I think it's very important that we never forget these voices and how they have been isolated. I think of the many communities I represent. When there is an election within their own community, of course, there is a 90% to 95% participation rate, meaning that indigenous communities are very much connected to a democratic system. What they're not connected to in the same way, I think, is the Canadian democratic system. Part of that is based on the lack of representation.We know that the House of Commons largely runs on a representation-by-population basis, but there are exceptions like the one you spoke of earlier about provinces having fewer House of Commons seats than Senate seats. In that context, is it important for us to explore representation in a broader context, especially around the first peoples of Canada?I know there's been a lot of discussion about how those voices can be amplified. The system right now, of course, leaves it up to parties to nominate people and bring forward those voices, but should there be seats in our Parliament and in our Senate that are set aside specifically for indigenous communities to make sure those voices are heard?C-14, An Act to amend the Constitution Act, 1867 (electoral representation)Electoral representationGovernment billsIndigenous affairsBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooPatrickTaillon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]I appreciate your comments on that. You have talked several times about having this debate on the Constitution, which I think would be an interesting thing to move forward with. I guess I'm curious to know what other countries have had this kind of debate. Are there particular models that you think are more meaningful? As we talk about representation, that is something that is incredibly important. There are a lot of identities in Canada. That's something that Canadians are proud of, but I don't think we always amplify the voices that we should.We look at our federal systems. We still see continuously that the people who are most prominent continue to be male, white and often straight. If we're going to talk about how to represent identity, how to make sure these voices are heard in a more profound way—and you're talking specifically about a debate in this constitutional realm—can you tell us what that format would look like? Have some countries done it more effectively than others? Do you have any examples for us?I think, once you answer that, my time will be done.C-14, An Act to amend the Constitution Act, 1867 (electoral representation)Electoral representationGovernment billsPatrickTaillonPatrickTaillon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair.It's a very interesting conversation today, and I thank the witnesses for being here with us.The bill is important in terms of ensuring that Quebec and other provinces don't lose representation in the House of Commons. Given the reality of Quebec's unique history, culture, language and role in Confederation, is the government contemplating changes that would also protect Quebec's share of seats in the House of Commons?C-14, An Act to amend the Constitution Act, 1867 (electoral representation)Electoral representationGovernment billsProvince of QuebecBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1230)[English]Thank you for that, Madam Chair, through you.The next question I have is around the reality that the format we're talking about is very colonial. We have a long-standing history here in Canada of colonialism and often extinguishing the voices of indigenous communities. We know that some other countries have explored expanding their electoral processes to make sure that the voices of indigenous communities are heard. We also know that, statistically, if you look at elections that happen within indigenous communities, the voter turnout is extremely high, but we don't see that reflected in the other elections that happen in our country. Is there any discussion at this point about how we can amplify the voices of indigenous communities? Is there any sort of goal towards having representation in both places in this Parliament to amplify those voices and make sure that those voices are represented? I look at New Zealand as a specific example. We know that this is incredibly important. If we're going to talk about reconciliation in a meaningful way, it has to happen at all levels. Of course, having those voices represented here, the first voices of this country, would make a more wholesome and collaborative process. Is there any work being done exploring that and looking at systems that are working in other countries and how they may work in Canada?C-14, An Act to amend the Constitution Act, 1867 (electoral representation)Electoral representationGovernment billsIndigenous affairsDominicLeBlancHon.BeauséjourDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Those are all my questions today.Thank you, Madam Chair.DominicLeBlancHon.BeauséjourBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]I have no questions. Thank you.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1555)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.Thank you, Minister, as well for being here today. I appreciate your taking some time with us. I am the proud representative of the 19 Wing in Comox, and I just want to have a bit of an opportunity to ask you about an article that came out not too long ago in which one of the senior officers was telling some of the members that perhaps the only way they could find housing would be to work with the Vancouver Island North Habitat for Humanity.Now, I don't want to say anything negative about the senior officer. I think they were providing a real alternative in a situation that is profoundly hard. Housing in our riding is hard to find, whether it's to rent or to purchase. The costs have gone up dramatically. We know that our military families have to travel quite extensively. We also know that in our area, there's a long relationship between Habitat for Humanity and the 19 Wing members, who've spent many years volunteering their time to help build houses for other people, but we also have to acknowledge that there is just not enough military housing. I notice that we're not seeing a substantive support for that in these estimates. Minister, why isn't there a substantive amount of resources going into military housing when we know that military families have to travel from one part of this country to another and provide stability for their families? If they have nowhere to live.... Just so you know, Minister, there are many service members in my riding who are travelling, in some cases, an hour to an hour and a half just to get to work every day because of the lack of housing.Canadian ForcesDepartment of National DefenceHousingMain estimates 2022-2023JohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodAnitaAnandHon.Oakville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1600)[English]To come back to that, though, Minister, we know that the residential housing unit numbers have gradually decreased since 2013, while the need has increased substantially, and that the Canadian Forces housing agency has identified a need for about 5,200 to 7,200 additional housing units across the country. That is pretty substantial, and we're not seeing the numbers follow that at all.I'm just wondering. We know that retention and attraction continue to be significant challenges, and I would assume that those things are correlated. If you have nowhere to live, if it's hard to move your family because there is nowhere to live, if you're having to have that lifestyle of driving an hour and a half away, which means that you're missing up to three hours a day with your family because of that, it's going to put a damper on people's impression that this is a good plan.How are you addressing that ideal of retention and attraction and putting in that idea of having housing? I hear the numbers you're throwing out, but what we're seeing again and again is that housing is not being built. We're not seeing the commitment to building it, and that means that it's getting harder and harder for military families. I think we ask enough of them.How are you going to address this in a more meaningful way and could you give a bit of a timeline? You threw out some numbers, but how long are the people in my constituency specifically going to have to wait until there's any housing built on the base?Canadian ForcesDepartment of National DefenceHousingMain estimates 2022-2023AnitaAnandHon.OakvilleAnitaAnandHon.Oakville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1615)[English] Thank you, Chair.Thank you again, Minister. I have a question. In 2015 and 2017, the Liberal government promised CAF personnel and veterans that it would eliminate the archaic and sexist marriage after 60 clause from the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act.Six years ago, in 2015, DND reported to the REGS committee that it was amending legislation and regulations to remove the marriage after 60 clause and that it was on their to-do list. In 2020, the previous minister of defence wrote to the REGS committee stating that a legislative change to repeal the gold digger clause was needed, but didn't offer any commentary on how to move forward with that.It is clear that DND knows how to fix the problem, but the department is not putting forward any amendments to do so until this government directs the officials to work on it.I want to be really clear. There are some cases where couples have been together for well over 15 years. It means that they are either living in poverty, because this military service person is giving up a significant part of their pension so that their loved one can have something when they're gone, or they're predicting a poverty-stricken future for their partner. It is ridiculous, in my mind, because it puts mostly elderly women at risk of homelessness and poverty, and insults them by labelling them a gold digger.I'm wondering, Minister, if you plan to eliminate this clause from the pension legislation, or will the government continue, as it has since 2015, to just drag its feet?Department of National DefenceMain estimates 2022-2023Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—Guildwood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1615)[English]That's where it belongs: defence.JohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodAnitaAnandHon.Oakville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1645)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I guess I'll be coming back to you, Mr. Matthews, because it sounds like we have some things to figure out here.You may not know this, but of course I'm normally a member of the committee for veterans affairs, where we have just completed a study on the marriage after 60 clause, and I want to figure this out. Brigadier-General Tattersall came to our committee and said this. I will quote it: The Minister of National Defence, under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act, is responsible for the overall management of the pension plan, including the financial management of Canadian Armed Forces pension funds.I'm just wondering if you could clarify that. One of the challenges I'm having right now is that we also heard from somebody who works in National Defence and who said in her statements to us that the minister has not yet been briefed specifically on this issue. We also heard from Veterans Affairs staff, multiple ones—and I'm willing to quote them as well—who said that the marriage after 60 clause belongs under National Defence. Now I'm here, sitting in this room, listening to you tell me that it's actually Veterans Affairs.Now, I agree that there definitely is some confusion, so could you just clarify that? The next question I have is, how do these things get worked out? I am not clear where they belong. There are a lot of people advocating for this to change. It has a huge impact on veterans and on members who are serving. It also has big impacts on people who are working for public services. All of these folks cannot get married after 60. If they do, they have no supportive benefits left for the survivor. This issue continues to go on and on, and nobody lays claim to it.Could I just get clarity on how the multiple agencies communicate to one another in order to figure out who this belongs to so that people who are fighting to get it changed know who to speak to?Department of National DefenceMain estimates 2022-2023Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodBillMatthews//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]Thank you. That's the survivors fund of $150 million, of course, of which none has been spent, and none of those people have had any supports or help. I appreciate your getting back to the committee, and I'll look forward to that. We'll come back again.One of the things that I also have a lot of concern about, as I mentioned earlier, is the issue of housing. We know that Comox, in my riding, has the second-highest average market rental rate of all of the different wings and bases across the country. I'm just wondering. As you're looking at building housing, residential housing units, on these locations, are you addressing that issue of where the market rate is so high that it's very hard for people to find a house either to buy or to rent? I want to be really clear. Those are often options and, like I said, people are in some cases moving very far away because there is nowhere else for them to live and they're having to travel.When those actual steps are taken to prioritize, is that market rental rate taken into consideration?Canadian ForcesDepartment of National DefenceHousingMain estimates 2022-2023BillMatthewsBillMatthews//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1650)[English]One of the discussions that I heard the minister start talking about is military housing and privatization. I'm just wondering how those things...working with private groups to figure out how you're going to build that. Can you tell the committee what models you are using?I noticed in the report that they talked about some different countries that are using this model. I'm really concerned about that, because if you move into the private sector, it will impact service members. One of the things that we know is that a lot of service members say that they like looking at military housing because it's affordable housing. Of course, if we're asking people to move across the country.... I've heard many times from the military that B.C. means “bring cash” because it's so expensive to live there, so how is that taken into consideration if you're going to be moving into a private model?Canadian ForcesDepartment of National DefenceHousingMain estimates 2022-2023BillMatthewsFrances J.Allen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1705)[English]Thank you, Chair.I want to ask a couple of questions. The first one is if DND will be able to meet its objective of 25% of people joining being women in 2026. We know that number continues to be elusive and we haven't got there yet.I'm wondering if there is any specific work being done in terms of research and looking at equipment. We know that's been a big issue. I've heard from veterans about that for a long time. I know it's getting better, but we know that a lot of equipment was not built for a women's body. It's changing. I'm wondering how that work is going. What are the key things that women are indicating they need to have in order to be looking at the military in a meaningful way?The second question that I have is around systemic racism. I've heard from many veterans who went through the military and had some really astonishingly negative things happen because of the community that they came from. I'm wondering what's happening in DND right now to uncover what has happened and figure out processes that are a little more fair. We know at this point that if it's somebody you're directly reporting to, it can be very hard—just like it is for anybody who's from a minority group—to come forward and talk about the situation that's happening in a meaningful way.I'm wondering what kind of work is being done on these two files.Canadian ForcesDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2022-2023Military recruitmentWomenJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodFrances J.Allen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1135)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair. Through you, I thank the witnesses for being here today.Mr. Sloly, you have said repeatedly in your testimony today that you were unprepared and that this was something beyond anything you could have imagined or other sectors could have imagined. My curiosity, especially as we're talking about expanding the precinct, is around why there were not any indicators or plans or thoughts about blocking any part of it before they arrived. Perhaps you could clarify that thought process.Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctProtestsSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooPeterSloly//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Through the chair, there wasn't the appropriate intelligence. I hear what you're saying there, but is part of the challenge the multijurisdictional area? Listening to other testimony from other jurisdictions, this is a very unique overlap area. It felt like there was a lot of miscommunication. There are articles out there that are talking about the breakdown of communications that have been tracked through emails between different departments. Without that intelligence, was there...?I guess what I'm asking is this: What would be different if the precinct were expanded? Would it clarify some of those things? Would it allow for responsiveness to be different or more unique, or is it just “now we know better and we're going to do better”?Federal jurisdictionLaw enforcementParliamentary precinctProtestsSecurityPeterSlolyPeterSloly//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1135)[English]Through you, Madam Chair, I'm wondering if Senator White has anything to add.Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityPeterSlolyVernonWhiteHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Through you, Madam Chair, I'll go back to Mr. Sloly again. When we look at this context of where we're at and what we've learned, what powers did your officers require that didn't already exist in order to deal with the occupation?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctPolice servicesProtestsSecurityVernonWhiteHon.PeterSloly//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1140)[English]Through you, Madam Chair, I've also read that there was an increased amount of absenteeism in the Ottawa police during that time. I'm just wondering if you could speak to that and to whether there was any related cause to that increase of absenteeism. Did that actually have an impact on the capacity of the force to do the work that it needed to?Absence from workFederal jurisdictionOttawa Police ServiceParliamentary precinctPolice servicesSecurityPeterSlolyPeterSloly//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Through you, if I could ask Mr. Sloly.... One of the things he spoke about in his presentation was misinformation and the challenges with regard to that. I noticed that, eventually, the Ontario police Twitter account started to address misinformation directly. I'm wondering if that had any impact.Reflecting on what has happened, how is dealing with misinformation important? What things could we do better in the future?DisinformationFederal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooPeterSloly//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1235)[English]Thank you, Chair. Through you, I'd like to thank the witnesses so much for attending today and for their important testimony. I hope the members of this committee understand some of the specific things that were said about process. I really appreciate Chief Jocko sharing with us that if an indigenous community is in one place and another indigenous group comes, they don't do anything in that space until they talk to the first people of that territory. Obviously, that process was clearly not done. Those protocols that across this country we understand were not done. I thank Chief Jocko for clarifying that. I think it was very important to get that on the record.Through the chair, I have a question for Chief Jocko. It's my understanding that during the occupation, her nation was informed by the indigenous liaison in the Ottawa city police and OPP during the occupation. Of course, if the precinct does change and there is an expansion of that, I'm wondering if that similar relationship is followed through with the Parliamentary Protective Service. If it's not, is that something we would have to consider if we expanded the precinct?Federal jurisdictionIndigenous affairsInformation disseminationParliamentary precinctSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooWendyJocko//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]It is. WendyJockoWendyJocko//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Thank you so much.Through you, Madam Chair, I want to come back one more time to Chief Jocko. Chief Jocko, if the parliamentary precinct were expanded and that region overseen by the Parliamentary Protective Service, does that mean you would like to see a very similar process where the discussions are there, where you're informed about different things that are happening, and where it would be something similar to the experience you had during the occupation? Perhaps I could get clarity on that so that we know what to put in the report.Federal jurisdictionIndigenous affairsInformation disseminationParliamentary precinctSecurityWendyJockoWendyJocko//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Thank you for that. That's extremely helpful.For my next question—maybe I'll start with the chief and then move on to you, Professor Coburn—is there a clear process of communication with Parliament and your nation? You talked about the ability to occupy the building here, which is set aside for you at 100 Wellington, and that is still not happening. I'm just wondering if there is a problem with the communication lines between the nation and Parliament? Is there work we need to do there that would open up those communication lines?Federal jurisdictionIndigenous affairsInformation disseminationParliamentary precinctSecurityWendyJockoWendyJocko//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1240)[English]Is there anything you would like to add, Professor Coburn?WendyJockoVeldonCoburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you for that. I admit that I did check out your tweet site, through you, Madame Chair. One thing that I found compelling was that you were tweeting about comparing the teepee erection that happened on the Hill in 2017 for the 150-year celebration of Canada Day. You talked about the clear distinction that you saw between that, where there were arrests and there was a lot of action by the RCMP to stop the actions that were happening when you wanted to put up a teepee, and what happened with the trucker convoy. I'm just wondering if you want to speak to that and to your concerns that, if the precinct does in fact grow and expand, it will still be an issue. How can we move forward to address that?Federal jurisdictionIndigenous affairsLaw enforcementParliamentary precinctSecurityVeldonCoburnVeldonCoburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1400)[English]Thank you, Chair.I thank all the folks who are here testifying today. It's very helpful and interesting.My first questions are going to be for Dr. Li.First of all, thank you very much for your presentation, and I thank you for including the quotes from some of the folks you worked with. I found those to be very impactful. You talked in your written remarks about the difficulty in finding veterans and survivors to participate in this study. Obviously, COVID was a considerable challenge. I would also argue that another challenge is the fact that the people you were asking to do this work are very dedicated to this country and very service-oriented. They don't like to say anything bad about the country they were willing to put their lives on the line for.I guess my question to you is how you found the 10 participants. Was there any modification in how you attracted those participants based on their service history and the fact that this is a group of people who largely served their country and don't complain? What were the criteria? Where in Canada were those folks living? I just want to get a sense of whether they were across the country or located largely in one or two centres.Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEric Ping HungLi//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1400)[English]I just want to clarify: Were they all veterans, or were there any RCMP veterans or federal public servants?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEric Ping HungLiEric Ping HungLi//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1400)[English]Okay. That's perfect.How many of the 10 participants had married after 60, or were there any who had married before 60? Can you tell us, generally, with those 10 participants, what their general income status was? Were they all retirees living on a fixed income?Income securityMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEric Ping HungLiEric Ping HungLi//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1405)[English]Thank you. That's really helpful.One of your recommendations was to consider removing the age limit, which I really appreciate. I'm just wondering. Did you conclude that the marriage after 60 clause should be eliminated in order to treat spouses fairly and recognize their personal sacrifice?Marriage and divorceSpousesSurvivor pensionsVeteransEric Ping HungLiEric Ping HungLi//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1405)[English]I find that interesting. You talked about the attachment people have with being called a gold digger. I've actually talked to a lot of people who are survivors—or who are planning to be survivors, though that's a hard thing to say—and on that impact of being called a gold digger, I've been really surprised. That really affects them. I'm just wondering if you saw that as well.DiscriminationMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEric Ping HungLiEric Ping HungLi//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1405)[English]My last question—and I only have few seconds—is around streamlining access to benefits on the VAC website. Could you tell us a little more about that and what challenges these participants had in accessing these services?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEric Ping HungLiEric Ping HungLi//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1420)[English]Thank you.I'm going to have to rely on the witnesses to decide who the best person is to answer this question. I think it may be Mr. Crabtree, but if I'm wrong you will let me know. I am trying to understand, because this is unique. When we think about the folks who are in this situation with the marriage after 60 clause, they are the ones who fill out the optional survivor benefit. That is not a normal practice for other pensions, from what I understand. We won't get into that. What I am trying to understand is, if a member fills that form out and gives up between 30% to 50% of their pension.... For example, one of the veterans we are working with now has submitted over $150,000 to put away for his wife when he passes. Now the wife is not doing well and it doesn't look like she's going to be with us much longer. When that happens, I understand that the veteran is removed from the OSB program and his pension returns to 100%, but what happens to all of that money? In this case, it's $150,000?Will that money come back to the veteran? This is them giving up their pension. To me, it's not the same as being a person who lives five years to 40 years. It is about saying, “Here's some of my money. I'm giving it up because I don't want this person to be without.”Can somebody please explain? Does that money stay in that big pot, or does any of that money come back to the person whose pension it was and who signed off on the optional survivor benefit?Marriage and divorcePensions and pensionersSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaSimonCrabtree//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1425)[English] Thank you. I think that's my time, Chair. Thank you for answering that question clearly.SimonCrabtreeEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1450)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.I would ask some questions of Ms. Garrett-Baird. The two are basically yes-or-no questions.In answering questions, you have talked about survivor supports outside of the pension that people who are married after 60 could possibly use after their partner passes. I'm just wondering if you could submit to the committee how much of that money is flowing to that particular group. You were talking about hundreds of thousands of people. How much money, what program and how many people who are survivors and have no access to the pension is it impacting? Could you get us that information?Marriage and divorcePensions and pensionersSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaCrystalGarrett-Baird//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1450)[English]Do you know? Do you calculate at all who accesses those programs and are not receiving the survivor's benefit?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransCrystalGarrett-BairdCrystalGarrett-Baird//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1450)[English]I'm not going to ask you that question because you don't want to understand it.Statistics Canada did all of that assessment, but there was no analysis. Could you provide the committee with the analysis of the Statistics Canada information?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransCrystalGarrett-BairdCrystalGarrett-Baird//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1455)[English]If you could submit that to us, that's perfect.Now, around the veterans survivors fund, this does apply only to veterans. It doesn't apply to RCMP veterans, which is concerning to me. I know that none of the money has moved of the $150 million. Does this assessment that you're going to share with the committee talk about how it's going to be moved and when it's going to be moved? Next, what is the department doing around the RCMP veterans?Marriage and divorceRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceSurvivor pensionsVeteransCrystalGarrett-BairdCrystalGarrett-Baird//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1455)[English]Okay, so there is no commitment for RCMP veterans. That's really helpful.I will actually write you my question—the initial question that I asked, more specifically—hoping that you'll understand it then. If you could receive that and get that information back to the committee, or let us know if you can't, that would be extremely helpful.That's my time. Thank you so much, Chair.Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransCrystalGarrett-BairdEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1500)[English]Absolutely not.Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransLucDesiletsRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1535)[English]Thank you so much.If I could ask a question through you, Chair, of Ms. Tattersall, my question is this: Is she aware that REGS, another committee in this place, has requested that the minister attend to explain the government's intentions regarding eliminating this clause on after 60...? That's question one. The second one is this: Has she been called on to provide briefing notes about this clause to anyone in National Defence and, if so, who?Department of National DefenceMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaVirginiaTattersall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1535)[English]Thank you. That's extremely helpful. I will come now to Mr. Crabtree. I know that the Treasury Board sometimes provides recommendations, so I'm wondering if the Treasury Board has a policy specifically on this clause. Does the Treasury Board support the elimination of the clause? Why or why not?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransVirginiaTattersallSimonCrabtree//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1535)[English]Thank you. I will come back to Ms. Garrett-Baird. Could I just get clarity if VAC has responsibility for RCMP veterans? I am very clear that this is the case, but I just want to clarify if there's a misunderstanding.Marriage and divorceRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceSurvivor pensionsVeteransSimonCrabtreeCrystalGarrett-Baird//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1540)[English]Today is a very good day. I am willing to accept that, absolutely, if that's okay with you, Chair.Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransCathayWagantallYorkton—MelvilleEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1540)[English]Thank you so much, Chair.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1540)[English] I will come back to Ms. Garrett-Baird.I'm curious. One thing we heard from Stats Canada was about the information that they were asked to draw. I'm just wondering why the request for stats was so narrow as to not include contrasting information, such as comparing the number of survivors who do not qualify for pensions because of the marriage clause to the number of those who do qualify. Who specifically ordered her to request this statistical information, and who has the information been shared with? Have other departments or the minister seen it? That would be helpful for me.Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaCrystalGarrett-Baird//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1550)[English]Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I know you're thanking everyone.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1550)[English]Thank you so much.I heard several committee members today talk about the Quebec provincial pension process. I'm just wondering if we could direct the analyst to be able to reach out and get more information so that when the report is written he has access. We are hearing a lot of anecdotal information, which I really value, but I think it's important that we actually get that information. I don't think we have a lot more time in our time here. I'm just wondering if it's okay with you, Chair, that we ask if the analyst could retrieve that information directly from the source so that the report captures that.Thank you. I'm sorry for interrupting.Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1550)[English]Thank you to all of the witnesses.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaSeanCaseyCharlottetown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1145)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I will do my best to ask every question through the Chair.If I may, through you, Madam Chair, I thank all of the witnesses for being here today. I really appreciate their testimony. I reflect on the fact that this was something that we have never seen before in this area or, in fact, in Canada, and that there were some serious concerns.If I could, through you, Madam Chair, I'll ask a question of Chief Bell. One of the things that we're talking about today is expanding the jurisdiction. In your testimony, you talked about how important it is to have things clearly laid out, so that there can be a collaborative method moving forward with any kind of incident that may happen.With the expansion of the precinct for Parliament, do you feel confident that those processes are in place, or is there anything that we need to do? Are there any modifications we would have to make to address the issue of a bigger precinct for Parliament?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooSteveBell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Through you, Madam Chair, again to Chief Bell, in your statements earlier you talked about the need for a deep collaboration.Are those structures in place now? Have we learned from the experience we lived through?I guess the other part of that question is that right now Wellington, in front of Parliament, the precinct there, is blocked off. We know that we had this motorcycle group come in not too long ago. Obviously, it was a very different reality. I'm just wondering if those collaborative methods are in place. Secondly, with our having that blocked off, did it have an impact on your ability to collaborate with the other partners to keep people safe?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecuritySteveBellSteveBell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]My question was just around the blocks that are there now on Wellington and the impacts that had.Thank you, Madam Chair.Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecuritySteveBellSteveBell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you for that.Through you again, Madam Chair, perhaps I could ask a question of Deputy Commissioner Duheme. I appreciate your earlier statements. You talked a lot about the support for this study, the importance of having this conversation, and of course always the importance of jurisdiction, but you also talked about the need for integrated command centres.Could you explain to us a little bit about what you meant by that, and also what does that mean in the context of the potentiality of increasing the parliamentary precinct?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctPolice servicesSecuritySteveBellMichaelDuheme//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1150)[English]Thank you.Through you, Madam Chair, could I ask what the impact will be on the PPS, then, specifically if the precinct grows?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctParliamentary Protective ServiceSecurityMichaelDuhemeMichaelDuheme//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1155)[English]Sure. My last question has to do with the expansion of the streets and what that would include. With that inclusion, I guess.... I don't know. No, I don't have a question. It's for PPS and I don't think that they're here, so I'll just leave it at that.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1205)[English]I would, Madam Chair, and if I could, I'll direct it to Chief Bell. One of the things I'm curious about is that, if the precinct is increased and that jurisdiction is increased, who would support small businesses, which I know suffered tremendously through this during the occupation. Who would attend those...? PPS is only in charge of Hill staff and MPs and stuff, so who would support the businesses in the jurisdiction if it were expanded?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooSteveBell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1245)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Through you, perhaps I could come back to Ms. Tassi. I thank both the ministers very much for being here, but I've heard her mention again and again this idea of jurisdiction and the challenges with jurisdiction. Practically, what would the change be if the precinct were expanded? If collaboration is already happening, which it is, as I understand from the previous testimony, what would be different?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooFilomenaTassiHon.Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I'd like to go back to Minister Tassi. I would assume that, through this process of all the changes that are happening to the precinct, there are conversations that are happening with the indigenous people of this land. I thank you for acknowledging them at the beginning of your comments. If the precinct does increase, if that is a process that is moved forward with, what discussions will happen with the indigenous community of this territory? As well, what will happen to the building that is there for the indigenous community? That's something that is on my mind. If this changes, what does that mean for that resource?Federal jurisdictionIndigenous affairsParliamentary precinctSecurityFilomenaTassiHon.Hamilton West—Ancaster—DundasFilomenaTassiHon.Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you for that.Minister Mendicino, I am just really curious. We know that there continue to be conversations about jurisdiction—who did what and when, what this should have looked like, and how collaboration between all of the different police forces should happen in the future. If the precinct is increased, I'm wondering what the potential cost will be for the PPS. Have there been any discussions about what that would look like and what next steps would need to happen?Federal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctParliamentary Protective ServiceSecurityFilomenaTassiHon.Hamilton West—Ancaster—DundasMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]Thank you for that, Madam Chair.I would ask the minister a following question. It would be helpful to have some sort of stance on what resources would be included. If the committee's going to make wise recommendations then knowing the costs associated with that would be really helpful. Hopefully your department can give us something so that we have it to consider.It goes back to the question that I asked Minister Tassi earlier around the precinct. We know that there were a lot of challenges with jurisdiction. We heard that from many people during the occupation. For me, I also want to recognize that I saw a lot of challenges, especially for people living with disabilities moving around that space. I had many confrontations in my ways in and out, talking about if they could just move their vehicles a few feet it would make accessibility a lot easier. I did not get very positive feedback from those folks at all, which was frustrating.If we could go back to that part, could you get us some sort of costs? The other part is, if this does grow, if that is something the government takes on, what will be the fundamental change in terms of jurisdiction and debating who does what and when?CostsFederal jurisdictionParliamentary precinctSecurityMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—LawrenceMarcoMendicinoHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1355)[English] Thank you, Chair.I want to thank everyone here, especially those of you who are having to share incredibly personal stories.Let me just apologize that you have to face this reality and that the only way for us to address it is for you to come on a screen and tell people your really personal stories. I think that is a travesty. It's why I'm fighting so hard, and, of course, why I put forward Bill C-221 that will address this issue, an NDP bill that has been in the House repeatedly. Hopefully, we will finally see some action on it.I will go to you first, Pat, and then I'm going to you right after, Kevin. I want to know. When did you find out that, if you married or entered a common-law marriage after 60, you would not be able to have a survivor's pension for the woman you loved?C-221, An Act to amend certain Acts in relation to survivor pension benefitsMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransWomenEmmanuelDubourgBourassaPatrickBoudreau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1400)[English]Exactly.Kevin, when did you find out that, if you were in a relationship after 60, you would not be able to leave a survivor's benefit?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransPatrickBoudreauKevinSewell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1400)[English]Thank you for that. I think that's really important because, like you both mentioned, the optional survivor benefit, the OSB, is what you can pay 30% to 50% of your income into your pension income.I know you have both chosen not to do that because it would mean an economic inability to do anything today. What a horrible place to be in. I can't imagine how painful it is to make these kinds of decisions.I guess my next question is this: When were you told that if you took that option—or were you told that option—to take 30% to 50% of your pension and put it away for them, that if your loved one, your partner, passed before you did, you would never receive a penny back?I will start with you again, Pat.Income securityMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransKevinSewellPatrickBoudreau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1400)[English]That's really helpful. Kevin, do you know?PatrickBoudreauKevinSewell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1405)[English]Yes. I know that, for me, it wouldn't occur to me to ask those questions. I would just assume that when I got married or when I was in a long-term relationship, my loved one would receive something when I was gone.Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransKevinSewellKevinSewell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1405)[English]Exactly. I think that's my time, but I will be coming back for you, Tracy and Kelly, in the next round.KevinSewellEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1420)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Kevin, I'm going to have to go to Tracy and Kelly. I'm not trying to be rude, but I want to make sure their voices are heard on this. It will keep you out of trouble later on. First of all, I want to say that I am really appalled that it is called the “gold digger” clause. It's very apparent to me, after listening to many witnesses, that families have a visceral reaction to being called gold diggers. I hope that's something all of us, in this place, take some reflection on. I heard from both of you about the commitment of your family and how families are changing; the definition definitely has to change. I want to remind all of us that the clause is in all of these departments. We can't say one department can fix it. It's bigger than that. It's in every one of these departments. I'm wondering whether each of you could take an opportunity...starting off with you, Kelly, and finishing with you, Tracy. What would your experience be if this clause were fixed? What would the impact on your life be?Families and childrenMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaKellyVankoughnett//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1425)[English]I'm sorry, Kelly, but I have to give Tracy a few seconds too.KellyVankoughnettKellyVankoughnett//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1425)[English] I apologize.KellyVankoughnettTracy LeeEvanshen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1450)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.I have two questions. The first one is for Patrick, Kelly, Tracy and Kevin. We know there are studies going on from Veterans Affairs Canada on this issue to address their veterans survivors fund. Have you ever been invited to participate in this study?Could I start with you, Pat?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaPatrickBoudreau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1450)[English]What about you, Kelly?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransPatrickBoudreauKellyVankoughnett//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1450)[English]What about you, Tracy?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransKellyVankoughnettTracy LeeEvanshen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1450)[English]What about you, Kevin?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransTracy LeeEvanshenKevinSewell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1450)[English]Thank you for that. That's very helpful.It will be interesting to figure out where they're getting their list from.My last question today is for Tracy. I am wondering if you could tell the committee whether you were able to go to work today. If you were not able to, why is that?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransKevinSewellTracy LeeEvanshen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1455)[English]It does make sense.Could I hear a bit more on this issue? I think this is so important. For the partners of people who served our country in whatever department they did, there may be particular challenges they are experiencing. Part of appreciating that sacrifice, as a country, is recognizing the impact it has.When I listen to this.... Maybe, in 1901, there was a good intention to protect. I don't think it was, really. I still think it was sexist in 1901, but it was to protect vulnerable men in a situation where they may have needed to be protected.What we're seeing now is the impact on people like you, Tracy, who are spending a great deal of their time supporting someone who has saved lives and supported our country. These are the ramifications, and I'm—Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransTracy LeeEvanshenTracy LeeEvanshen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1455)[English]Chair, if I may, I just want to let you know that Kevin has passed on the email address of the American major he was speaking about. We'll make sure, of course, that the clerk has it.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1535)[English] Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.Thank you, of course, to the witnesses.I will do my best to ask questions that you can actually answer. I really appreciate your being here, though, and I really appreciate the content of the information you sent us.My first question is regarding the Excel spreadsheets. Could you explain to me what the “Gap ratio for low income” means? What is it indicating and what is it measuring?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1535)[English] Okay.I'm going to try to ask this question. Hopefully, it makes sense. One of the things that we've heard from the testimony is that folks have the option to take a portion of their pension and put it away for their partner in the future. Did that come up in any of the work you had done? Do we have any data that says what percentage of veterans or what percentage of people who are impacted by this did put away money for their spouse?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransAndrewHeiszJoséeBégin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1535)[English]Thank you. That's so helpful. Thank you, Chair.Based on the data collection and analysis, can you tell us a bit about the income level of spouses? I'm trying to get a sense of the poverty rates, to some degree, but the other part is that I'm curious to know if the data told us whether there are any changes through different cohorts or different generations. I know that sometimes women who are of a certain age who worked inside the home did not work outside the home, and younger populations today tend to have both folks working. I'm wondering if there's any difference between those age cohorts.Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransJoséeBéginJoséeBégin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1540)[English]Thank you. I think what's interesting about talking to Stats Canada is always that reflection of what other studies we could do that would really help us to comprehend these issues in a more fulsome way. Thank you for that clarity.I know that there was an agreement and you shared the information with VAC, but I'm wondering if you shared this information with anyone else. I know, for example, that the Parliamentary Budget Officer is currently doing a study on this issue. I'm wondering if that information has been shared with the Parliamentary Budget Officer or anyone else.Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransAndrewHeiszJoséeBégin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1540)[English]Okay. Thank you.This is my last question in this section. You talked a couple of times about cost-recovery contracts. Could you just explain to me what that means?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransJoséeBéginJoséeBégin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1555)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. Thank you, again, to the witnesses. I have found you very helpful. I am really glad that you came, and I understand why you were not sure if you should come.When was this data provided to VAC? To what department or to whom in VAC was it delivered?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaJoséeBégin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1555)[English] Thank you. I know we're getting a copy of that letter. I wasn't sure if it was on there or not.I guess my last question is just around who can access the information. What I mean by that is that we've had a lot of questions come up from the different members here today. Can MPs or committees approach Stats Canada and say, “Could you get this information for us?”, or is it really just ministers and departments that can ask for that sort of task?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransAndrewHeiszJoséeBégin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1555)[English]Yes, I mean in general. Just after I heard all of the ideas of how we can compare, for example, to 2008, I'm just wondering if committees or MPs have the capacity to say, “Actually, that would be great. Can you do that for us?” Does it have to come from a minister or a department?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransJoséeBéginJoséeBégin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1600)[English]Thank you so much.JoséeBéginEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1325)[English] Thank you so much, Chair.Hello, Minister. Hello, Mr. Ledwell. It's good to see both of you here today. I did appreciate seeing you yesterday, Minister, at Helmets to Hardhats, an amazing organization. I was sitting with my friends from the Canadian Labour Congress. I really enjoyed my time with them and really enjoyed hearing from so many veterans who moved from one place to another, and it was such a smooth transition. I was happy to see you and happy, of course, to support the important work they are doing.My questions for you today are around my bill, Bill C-221, which addresses the issue of marriage after 60. As you know, Minister, this is something I'm very passionate about. You may know that the committee has just started a study. Last week we had some tremendous witnesses before us here.One of the things that I found very concerning, Minister, is how hurt these veterans and retired RCMP members were by this reality. In one case, we heard a story from someone who married after 60 and did not know that his partner would not receive the pension after his passing. It's a devastating conversation to have to inform your loved one of that reality.We also heard from a couple who had been married for 17 years. They are both in good health, so I hope to see them married for many more years, Minister.I want to quote a few things that Walter said. He said:It's shameful that I have to stand here and talk to people like you about trying to justify my finances after death.... I felt kind of insignificant with this whole thing. Basically, how I feel is that she has been a good caregiver to not only me but this community. She's well respected, and it's almost like an insult that I would leave this earth and not have anything to leave.He also mentioned later on that he felt that the government was saying she was not worth it.I hope, Minister, you agree with me that after 17 years of marriage she is definitely worth having some sort of supports after he is no longer with her.Could you tell the committee—and I will interrupt you, as you know, Minister, with deep respect—what steps are being taken internally within the department to start to address this issue in a meaningful way? We know there are some funds that are available through the veterans survivors fund.I would like also to hear if there's any money moving from that to support women—largely women; sometimes it's men— who no longer have their partners with them and have absolutely no survivors benefits after they lose that person they may have been married to. In one case I have heard from somebody who has been married now over 30 years.Go ahead, Minister.Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1330)[English]Thank you so much, Minister. Here's the interruption that you were expecting.If there are any numbers, I would really like them passed on to the committee. We do need to see them. They would especially be relevant for our study.As you know, Minister, veterans who marry after 60, RCMP officers and federal civil service workers can put between 30% to 50% of their pension away every single month to build a bit of a nest egg to support that loved one. This is very concerning to me, of course, because that means our people who served us in many different ways are now in a poor state for their whole retirement. That's something we should all be concerned about.We heard a story about a veteran who put aside $153,000 for their loved one after years and years. Unfortunately, she is not well, and it doesn't look like she's going to make it. It looks like he will be losing her before she loses him. All of that money, $153,000, is completely gone. They do not get it back.Minister, I'm wondering if you could talk to us about why, when somebody would take a part of their pension, make that choice because of the system we have in place, submit that money to make sure their loved one has that nest egg, and if they lose that loved one, not only do they lose that person, but they lose all of those historic savings.Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1335)[English]No, Minister. I'm talking about people who married after 60, and who know they will not be able to leave a survivor's benefit for their loved ones because they were married after 60. They take part of their—Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1335)[English]They take part of their own pension and put it aside. They put between 30% and 50% aside. In this case, it was $153,000 over the last many years, which they saved in a nest egg for their loved one out of their own pension—something for which they filled out a form from your department. Now that the loved one is dying, they will not receive any of that money back.We want to know where that money is going and why it isn't returned to the person. It's their pension money.Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Veterans Review and Appeal BoardLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1350)[English]Thank you, and I always appreciate how well our chair keeps us on time, so I thank him for that. Minister, just so you understand the appropriate language around the pensions, it is called the optional survivor benefit, which is in correlation with the marriage after 60 clause. Specifically, what I'm trying to understand is.... We know that if they fill out this form, if they contribute that money—and in this one particular case, over $150,000 was contributed—if their loved one dies before they do, that nest egg they've put away for themselves is gone.What I'm trying to clarify is, does that money go back to the government? Does that money just go back to general revenue? We know it is not going back to veterans, RCMP officers, or federal civil servants. Could you let us know where that money goes, when it doesn't go to the people who should have it?Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardEmmanuelDubourgBourassaLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1350)[English]No, it is absolutely what I am asking you. I appreciate your saying that. I do believe it belongs to the person or the estate, so thank you for saying that—Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1350)[English]—and I thank you for looking into that.Minister, if you could also let me know, the director general of the RCMP compensation services has told my office that the pensioner must take a medical examination to determine whether he or she is suffering from terminal illness, and must live for a minimum of 12 months from the time the monthly contributions commence for the optional survivor benefit.Can we just confirm from VAC whether this policy is in place for veterans who want to take part in the OSB program?Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardLawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1350)[English]Thank you so much, Minister. I look forward to seeing that.LawrenceMacAulayHon.CardiganLawrenceMacAulayHon.Cardigan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1435)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you to all of you for being here today.My first question is on the office of women and LGBTQ2 veterans. I'm wondering if you could tell the committee how much is in the budget for this office and how many staff are working in this office.2SLGBTQI+ communitiesDepartment of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Sexual and gender minoritiesVeterans Review and Appeal BoardEmmanuelDubourgBourassaPaulLedwell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1435)[English]I always want to hear from Mr. Harris. Thank you.Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Veterans Review and Appeal BoardPaulLedwellStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1435)[English]Could somebody answer the question?Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Veterans Review and Appeal BoardStevenHarrisEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1435)[English]I did ask about the budget, so I'm going to ask for that again, but I also am curious. What are some of the current research projects this office is working on? Just to preface that, if you don't have an answer for me, could you get that information to the committee?2SLGBTQI+ communitiesDepartment of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Sexual and gender minoritiesVeterans Review and Appeal BoardAmyMeunierAmyMeunier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1440)[English]I will look forward to hearing more specifics. I understand you're looking into those groups, but it would be interesting to hear what the key issues are that you're finding and addressing.My next question is about VAC's new rehabilitation contract. Once this program starts, will veterans be able to continue to see their own psychiatrists and medical professionals, or will they be forced to go to a provider sourced by the professional?Maybe I'll give that to Mr. Ledwell.Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Medical rehabilitationVeteransVeterans Review and Appeal BoardAmyMeunierPaulLedwell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1440)[English]No, that's okay. I'll let that one go. Maybe the next question I'll have Mr. Harris answer.I'm trying to figure this out. I know there is a pilot that VAC is running right now. When this happens, what I'm hearing is that the case manager doesn't finish working with the veteran. Instead, the veteran is pushed into guided support given by a veterans service agent.What I'm trying to understand is what the difference is between these two roles and what the checks and balances are to make sure that, when that person is moved out of case management and into guided support, they are still doing well. I'm just curious, because it sounds to me as though this is really pushing people through the system.I'm wondering if there is a bonus paid to the provider to get the veterans off those services sooner. If there is a bonus, what does that look like?Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Medical rehabilitationVeteransVeterans Review and Appeal BoardPaulLedwellStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1440)[English] Just so you know, Mr. Harris, that is not what I am hearing at all. I'm surprised that you're saying that. I'm just putting that on the record. That is not at all what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that they leave the case manager, that they go to the veteran service agent, and that there is no continuation of care between the two.Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Medical rehabilitationVeteransVeterans Review and Appeal BoardStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1440)[English]Could we get a copy of what those checks and balances are? Those would be really helpful. Then, if you—Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Medical rehabilitationVeteransVeterans Review and Appeal BoardStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1440)[English]I have only a few seconds left. Is there a bonus paid to the provider that is there to show that veterans get off the services sooner?Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Medical rehabilitationVeteransVeterans Review and Appeal BoardStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1455)[English] Thank you, Chair.I guess my question has to go to Mr. Harris now. I always enjoy that, as he well knows.I'm wondering if he could tell us what the standards of care for veterans are with this new rehab contract and if we can have a copy of the standards of care.BacklogsDepartment of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Veterans Review and Appeal BoardEmmanuelDubourgBourassaStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1500)[English]All right. I'll let you know if I like it. If I want something else, I'm sure you'll hear from our office, as you know.In the conclusion pilot, I'm just wondering, what the process is of determining when the veteran moves from case management to a veterans service agent. You talked about what you were looking for, but I also know that sometimes people do better for a while and then they struggle again. I'm wondering how that relationship works between those two roles, and if the veteran has to see a new person. This is something that I am very concerned about. A veteran has a case manager or may have a veterans service agent, but something changes and they have to go back to the case manager. Do they have to go to a new one, or do they get to stay with the one they already know, and vice versa as they move through the transition period?BacklogsDepartment of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Veterans Review and Appeal BoardStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1500)[English]I'm sorry to interrupt, but I only have 10 seconds.Have you done any work on what happens to a veteran when they have to retell their story to whomever they are getting their supports from? We definitely heard about this for caseworkers not understanding about what happened to the queer community prior to that.I'm just wondering if there is any research within your department around that specifically, what it does to veterans when they have to retell their stories to yet another worker.BacklogsDepartment of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Veterans Review and Appeal BoardStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1530)[English]Thank you, Chair.I want to start off by saying that I disagree with Ms. Meunier. I want to point out to everybody at this table that, in fact, in 2015 and 2017, the letter to the Minister of Veterans Affairs from the Prime Minister said directly to address this issue, and then it disappeared. I'm not going to allow it to disappear.I also want to point out that VAC does in fact oversee both the OSB and the pension clause, so I understand that there are multiple ministries that are involved in this, but the fact that so many veterans across this country who have served our country and so many RCMP who have served our country worry about their partners being able to live in the same house when they die is unacceptable.This question is for Mr. Harris. The veterans survivor pension does not in fact apply to RCMP officers, and those veterans do fall under the minister's mandate. What is VAC doing to accommodate the needs of survivors of the RCMP veterans?Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardEmmanuelDubourgBourassaStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1530)[English]I'm talking about survivor benefits, so I will say that at this point there is not anything for RCMP. In fact, in my conversations with the amazing veterans from the RCMP, who do tremendous work in fundraising to support women who have been left—largely women—who have lost their husbands and now have very little.... I just want to point out as well that we had a conversation...and more are coming. I just want to say that my office is inundated with these stories, and when I hear these stories, I just know that it's an injustice. That is my job: to voice that.I think of Norma, who presented to us and who will be looking after her granddaughter who has special needs. When he passes, she will be living on significantly less, so part of their plan is how they're going to face those challenges. I just want to correct the record, that there are not the supports for the RCMP who retire and that there are supports for the veterans. There's a huge gap there and it is absolutely under this department to fix it, and I certainly hope you do.Department of Veterans AffairsMain estimates 2022-2023Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeterans Review and Appeal BoardStevenHarrisStevenHarris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1530)[English]I think that's good for me.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1400)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I first of all want to thank everyone so much for their testimony, especially those of you who are sharing very personal and intimate stories about the reality you're facing because of this very apparent injustice, quite frankly, in our country. Thank you for taking this up and for being able to share what is happening in your life so that as parliamentarians we can all better understand it.If I could, I'll first start out with Mr. Demers. First of all, thank you again for sharing your very personal information. You said in your testimony that your wife would not be able to stay in her home in the event of your passing. I would like you to tell the committee what it feels like to carry the weight of worrying about the safety of your spouse of 17 years when you meet your end.Marriage and divorceSafetySurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaRobertDemers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1400)[English] Thank you for sharing that. I really am impacted by how you talked about feeling as though you were hit with a two-by-four. I'm looking for some clarity. You found out in 2020, so that, to me, means that it was not made clear to you at any point in your service that if you were marrying after 60 this would be the outcome. Could you speak to that?Marriage and divorceSafetySurvivor pensionsVeteransRobertDemersRobertDemers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1400)[English]Thank you for sharing that. I think that is incredibly important. It's not right, but it's also a shock, which really makes you, as a human being, feel very uncomfortable that you didn't warn your partner that part of being with you would be this potential outcome. Thank you for that.Mr. Pinsent, you talked about being married for 17 years to your amazing wife. I really appreciate both of you testifying here today. I think hearing from both of you has been really helpful. You did talk, Walter, about feeling stressed, when you thought about what the future was and about the hard conversations you had with your wife about how you would make your financial decisions.Could you just explain? I think people need to understand how stressful it is for you to carry with you the fact that when you go, all the benefit you bring to her personally will be gone but also what that means financially for her future.Income securityMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransRobertDemersWalterPinsent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1420)[English] Thank you, Chair. I will go quickly to Sandy. I believe you told a story about a veteran who's put aside, I think you said, about $153,000 so far for his wife, and now I understand the wife is not doing well and will probably not make it. I want to clarify that with the way these pensions work, folks are giving up part of their pension—between 30% and 50% of their pension—every single month, but if their loved one passes before they do, that pension disappears and all of that money is returned. Could I get clarity on that?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaAlexanderGlenn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1425)[English]I will go to the Federal Retirees. I want clarity on that. Could I hear whether there is any other jurisdiction that doesn't do that or that allows survivor pensions? I also want clarity as to whether, if you are 55 and you are a federal public retiree and then you get married at 58, this applies even though you got married before 60? I need clarity on that. Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransAlexanderGlennJean-GuySoulière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1425)[English]If you're common law at 55 and then you get married at 60, is there any change there?Marriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransPatrickImbeauEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1440)[English]I'm happy to take it.Voices: Oh, oh!EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1450)[English]That is not fair, Chair. I would like to ask a couple of question of Norma.I want to say first of all that Walter's devotion to you is very apparent to all of us in this room. I want to thank both of you, because you've had to be incredibly honest about the reality you're living. That's something we need to hear, but I also feel very uncomfortable that, to look at it, you have to put your hearts on the table in this way for us. I want to recognize that first.Norma, in your testimony, you said something really important to me about the dedication to family, that it's not just about the two of you, but it is about a son that you're caring for and also a granddaughter. Could you speak to us about the impact it will have on those relationships, and your responsibility if you are without Walter and without that part of your economic benefit?Families and childrenMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNormaPinsent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1455)[English] Without the same resources, and I think that's what is so important.Families and childrenMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransNormaPinsentNormaPinsent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1455)[English]After so many years of marriage, building a family, you feel that without that financial support you won't be able to do the duties that you are responsible for. Families and childrenMarriage and divorceSurvivor pensionsVeteransNormaPinsentNormaPinsent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1455)[English]Thank you for that. That honesty, I think, is absolutely imperative. I just want to say to Walt that I believe that Norma is worth it, and I promise to continue this fight for as long as it takes. Thank you both. Thank you, all.NormaPinsentNormaPinsent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1220)[English] Thank you, Chair. I thank all of our witnesses for being here today. I know that the last several months have been incredibly taxing on everyone, and I want to recognize all the hard work that you provided to us during that time.The first question I want to ask is around committees. We know that this is an ongoing challenge for sure. I know it's not easy for me to tell some of my members that we're going to have to cancel our committee to accommodate another. I'm wondering if we could get a little clarity about where the gap is. Is it in technology? Is it in technology and interpretation, or is it simply in the role of the interpreters who serve us?House of CommonsMain estimates 2022-2023Translation and interpretation servicesBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1220)[English]Okay.I know that the interpreters have had a very hard time in the last few years. We know that injuries have increased dramatically. People have not had the proper technology. It's been a challenge trying to get the best technology.My next question is if there is a need for better investment in tools that will support our interpreters so that they have fewer injuries. I'm not the expert, of course. The other part of the question is this. Is part of our challenge based around the fact that we do have interpreters who are having to take time off because of their injuries?House of CommonsMain estimates 2022-2023Translation and interpretation servicesCharlesRobertMichelPatrice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1220)[English]The last part is around injury. Are we losing so many interpreters to injury that it is making it harder for us to have as many committees as we may want?House of CommonsMain estimates 2022-2023Translation and interpretation servicesMichelPatriceMichelPatrice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Thank you.I cannot say enough good things about the interpreters. They are always very generous with me, so I want to acknowledge their incredible work and their patience through this very hard time.Voices: Hear, hear!Ms. Rachel Blaney: I want to come over to some questions about the PPS. The Deputy Speaker spoke very well in his presentation to us. Thank you for being here to represent Anthony. There is one thing that I'm not clear on and need a little bit more clarification on. What is the role between the PPS and the RCMP? Has that completely been done, and who is fully responsible for the protective services in the parliamentary settings? I'm trying to understand that better.Main estimates 2022-2023Parliamentary precinctParliamentary Protective ServiceRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceSecurityCharlesRobertLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Who does the PPS directly report to? Is that the Speaker?Main estimates 2022-2023Parliamentary Protective ServiceSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Thank you so much for that.We know that during the occupation, there was a tremendous amount of work for them. By and large, they did an incredible job with very trying circumstances.One of the questions that I have relating to this budget is, and you referenced several times that it was not accounted for when these estimates were sent in.... We know that in terms of staffing, there was a lot of overtime and there were a lot of people who were supposed to be on vacation who were asked to not go on vacation in order to accommodate the situation.I'm wondering about those impacts. How is the PPS doing, being able to fulfill the work that they need to do now after going through such a hard time?Main estimates 2022-2023Parliamentary Protective ServiceSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]I'm sorry. I have just a few more seconds.I want to check on the economic part of that, with having to pay that kind of overtime, having to make people not take their vacation and postponing that for a period. What are the impacts for us in a budgetary way?Main estimates 2022-2023Parliamentary Protective ServiceSecurityLarryBrooksonLarryBrookson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1225)[English]Thank you.ÉricSavardBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1250)[English] Thank you, Chair. As always, all my questions will go through the chair.Ms. Idlout, I want to thank you for your work here and for the words you shared with us today. I really admire it. The conversation we're having today is really important. I'm really moved by the story you told in your testimony about literally having to tell your constituents, “My name is the one in the middle.” That really is a good reminder of how challenging it can be to feel like you even have the right to vote, if all you know when you walk in is that the middle name and those symbols mean that person. I also found it really interesting in the testimony the idea of having photos beside the names.I would like to ask you a question. The first part of the question is, what do you think about the photos by the name? Does that also assist people who have challenges?Also, how are we going to see the indigenous population start to vote more? I represent over 20 first nations communities. The voter turnout locally in their own nations is very high, around 90%. They get out and they vote, but when it comes to the federal election, it's a lot lower. What do you think impedes indigenous voters from casting their vote, and what do you think can be done to increase voter turnout among those communities?BallotsFederal electionsIndigenous languagesVoter turnoutBardishChaggerHon.WaterlooLoriIdloutNunavut//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1250)[English]Thank you for that.Something that is very apparent is that there needs to be more work done in this area. What do you think Elections Canada could do about hiring local indigenous people as interpreters, potentially, maybe even as cultural interpreters to raise awareness of what the best process is to move forward to engage that population?I think this is important because this is a measurable outcome. If we can see some action, we can actually say, “This is the percentage of indigenous people who were voting, and now it's this.” It's so measurable. It seems like something we should invest in.BallotsFederal electionsIndigenous languagesVoter turnoutLoriIdloutNunavutLoriIdloutNunavut//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1255)[English]I don't think I have enough time for my final comment. I'll leave it at that. Thank you.BardishChaggerHon.WaterlooBardishChaggerHon.Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1920)[English]I just want to confirm with you: Is it six minutes?EmmanuelDubourgBourassaEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1920)[English]I just wanted to confirm that I wasn't giving up any of my time. First of all, I would like to thank Mr. Laurion for his service to our country. I'm impressed by not only the many years of service you've provided, but also how you've come home to provide so much service for other veterans. I want to thank you and recognize that important work.For my first question, I am going to go to Ms. Lowther. I see that you did a pilot project for LGBTQ2S+ veterans. One of the things we've heard from other witnesses is that there is no data collection around this particular group within the military, and then, of course, it doesn't happen in Veterans Affairs. If you don't sort of quantify information, it's hard to see what's happening with a particular group. I think that when you don't collect data, it is a way of silencing people.I'm wondering how this project occurred. How were folks identified and what was the main purpose of the project?2SLGBTQI+ communitiesDepartment of Veterans AffairsGovernment servicesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaDebbieLowther//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt, but my time is running out. I really appreciate that response. It was very helpful.If I could just come back to the National Association of Federal Retirees, I'll leave it them to decide who answers my question. I really appreciate what was said about an office of equity-seeking groups. That's a new and important way to look at what we need to see moving forward. I do want to come back to that data component. We heard again and again that data is being not collected. This is a particular group, the LGBT group, where we know that people sometimes have stayed in the closet for a tremendous amount of time and came out at one point in their service. That information isn't really being quantified, and we're not going to see the services they require based on that.I'm wondering if somebody from the National Association of Federal Retirees could speak to that.2SLGBTQI+ communitiesGovernment servicesVeteransDebbieLowtherSaywardMontague//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English] Thank you for that.I also know that the department has set up a specialized unit that has given priority to processing more than a thousand applications from survivors of military sexual trauma, and that training on the subject has been set up for all frontline staff.Ms. Montague, do you know of any veterans whose cases were given priority by this unit whose objective was to render a decision in less than 30 days?Education and trainingGovernment servicesPost-traumatic stress syndromeVeteransSaywardMontagueSaywardMontague//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1925)[English]Do you know of anyone you represent who had dealings and were aware of the particulars of the sexual trauma and what results came out of this?If anybody else has a response, I am open to it, although I have no minutes left. Education and trainingGovernment servicesPost-traumatic stress syndromeVeteransSaywardMontagueEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1940)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Laurion, I would like to ask you a question. I'm going to paraphrase something you said at the beginning of your presentation. You said that we don't know we have problems; other people notice that we have problems. I thought that was a really important and impactful statement.We heard some testimony from the Veterans Transition Network, who talked about the distinction between service-related injuries, what happens when you're serving, and then injuries caused by the institution, by VAC.Could you speak to that difference in injuries and the impacts on veterans and the folks you work so hard to support?Department of Veterans AffairsGovernment servicesVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaJeanLaurion//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1945)[English]Basically my question is about the impacts of VAC's actions that injure people, such as responding slowly or not providing the services that veterans receive. What have the impacts of accessing Veterans Affairs been on people like you and those whom you support?Department of Veterans AffairsGovernment servicesVeteransJeanLaurionJeanLaurion//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to come back to Ms. Montague, if I may.I know that one of the biggest challenges that I hear about is women who are released from the military because of injuries and other things that happen to them during their service to our country. We also know that, of course.... I really appreciated it when you talked about that. If you don't measure it, it's hard to know what's going on. A lot of women—all women—are measured through the lens of a male body. We know that often one of the impacts of that is that they are released and they are not recognized as having service-related injuries because that model for them isn't clearly there.I'm just wondering if you could speak to what ways we need to see change happen to make sure the systems are not gender blind and are not blind to all equity-seeking groups.Government servicesSexual discriminationVeteransEmmanuelDubourgBourassaSaywardMontague//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]I think one of the challenges that we hear again and again is that relationship through the transition process from one department to the other department.You spoke about how there's some work being done. Are the abilities for translating that help from one department to another strong enough, or is there anything that we could look at differently to make that a smoother process?Department of Veterans AffairsGovernment servicesVeteransSaywardMontagueSaywardMontague//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (2015)[English]Thank you.SaywardMontagueEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP): (1330)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Of course, as always, I would like to extend my thanks to the ombudsperson for the work her office does. It's incredibly important and of course, Colonel Jardine, through the chair, it's always good to have a chat with you.One of the things that really stuck out to me from your comments today was the reality that when people are waiting for their disability claim to be processed, they're often not able to afford the cost of the treatment, which means, sadly, they forgo it. I also look at the statement in which you talked about how women are often waiting considerably longer. We've heard from female veterans that their experience is unique because often what they're being assessed for is through a male-body lens. This limits the understanding of the experiences they're having, and at times they're even denied the supports that they rightfully are due because of that.I'm just wondering if you have done, or plan to do, any work on understanding this specific issue better, and how we can help women who have served our country be served more comprehensively as veterans.BacklogsDisabled veteransVeteransVeterans benefitsWomenEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNishikaJardine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1330)[English]Thank you, through the chair, for that important work, and I look forward to that report. I know we've heard from a lot of persons identifying as women veterans about their experiences, and there are definitely some significant gaps there.I'm wondering if your office has ever received any calls from women veterans regarding mental health supports during pregnancy? We've heard a few in our office and I would just like to hear from the ombudsperson's office.BacklogsDisabled veteransMental healthVeteransVeterans benefitsWomenNishikaJardineNishikaJardine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1335)[English]It's sad to hear, then. It's sad to hear that the children also suffer, when I'm pretty sure they remain the children of the veteran.I have a follow-up question on the in-home support. I understand there's going to be a follow-up investigation of that. I'm wondering if the committee could hear a bit more about what's going to happen in that investigation and if there's something particular that you're looking for.BacklogsDisabled veteransFamilies and childrenVeteransVeterans benefitsDuaneSchippersNishikaJardine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1355)[English] Thank you, Chair.Speaking of data, we heard from multiple witnesses earlier this week. We heard from the LGBT community that on none of the forms were they asked that question. People who are willing and happy to identify don't even have the opportunity to identify, which means we don't have that data. This is very concerning.My next question is around the caregivers. We know that so many of them are doing a lot of the work. What I heard in the last response was really important; that is, that the government is benefiting from the free labour of the caregivers.We could explore that a bit more, because we know that the eligibility criteria are very narrow. They don't look at the key things. You said right here in your report that caregivers are taking on the veteran's share of the child care, elder care, cooking, shopping, laundry, baking, appointments, and providing all that psychological support, and that those things just don't qualify.Could you talk about the impact this has on the family and on the veteran?BacklogsCaregivers and health care professionalsDisabled veteransVeteransVeterans benefitsEmmanuelDubourgBourassaNishikaJardine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/89354RachelBlaneyRachel-BlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlaneyRachel_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rachel Blaney: (1400)[English]I find this really compelling, because I remember, in our study on caregivers in the last Parliament, talking about how families were dealing with huge psychological trauma that most trauma experts would struggle with, yet the families were left carrying that. There is no support for that. Loved ones often can't even work outside of the home, because they have all the work inside the home. I hope that study looks at that as well.Thank you for your work.BacklogsDisabled veteransVeteransVeterans benefitsNishikaJardineEmmanuelDubourgBourassaINTERVENTIONParliament and SessionDiscussed TopicProcedural TermCommitteePerson SpeakingParticipation TypeSearchResults per pageOrder byTarget search languageSide by SideMaximum returned rowsPagePUBLICATION TYPE